Dave Congalton on News Talk 920 KVEC: Gaza

Sunday, January 04, 2009

Gaza

We'll have two segments on the unfolding situation in Gaza: Jack Greene checks in Monday night. Meanwhile, some Cal Poly students will speak on Wednesday in advance of a campus protest planned for Thursday.

Here's the latest from the Associated Press:

"Thousands of Israeli troops backed by tanks and helicopter gunships surrounded Gaza's largest city and fought militants at close range Sunday, the first full day of an overwhelming ground offensive in the coastal territory.

Israel said it has inflicted a heavy blow against Hamas as it expands a weeklong offensive meant to stop rocket fire on southern Israel. But spiraling civilian casualties among Palestinians fueled an international outcry, even as the U.S. blocked approval of a U.N. Security Council statement Saturday night calling for an immediate cease-fire.

Israel's ground forces moved in after nightfall Saturday following hours of intense, fiery artillery shelling to clear the way, and Hamas warned that its fighters would turn Gaza into an Israeli "graveyard."

Palestinians reported clashes early Monday in eastern Gaza near the border with Israel. Hamas militants fired rocket-propelled grenades and mortars at advancing Israeli tanks. Explosions could be heard in Gaza City as aircraft attacked buildings. There was no immediate word about casualties."

145 Comments:

Hamas is getting a tatse of it's own medicine, and it's about time.

Israel has waited far too long to take this kind of action. I hope they never let up until the illegal Islamonazi government of Gaza is over thrown and replaced with a non terrorist based elected group.

You will soon see Obama agrees with me.

Go Israel!

By I Support Israel!, at Sunday, January 04, 2009 10:13:00 PM
On Thursday, January 8, Students for Justice and Peace in the Middle East will be holding a rally at 11AM at the University Union of Cal Poly to protest the recent Israeli attacks on Gaza and the humanitarian crisis currently occurring in Gaza.

According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, the Israeli army has killed over 400 Palestinians since December 27 and wounded more than 2000, with 300 in critical condiditon. Gaza is a densely-populated coastal region where refugees make up a majority of the population. Many of the casualties are civillians.

We are trying to raise awareness about the situation and show that we support the Gazan people without supporting the rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas. We are supporting an innocent population without blaming the Israeli people. We are not against the State of Israel, we are against those who make the decisions that cause the deaths of innocent civilians. Please come show your support for the people of Gaza."

By The People of Gaza, at Sunday, January 04, 2009 10:15:00 PM
If the U.S. political system is failing once again (as with the Iraq invasion-occupation) to allow a powerful dissident current on the Gaza attack to have any response in the two party political system. This is an acute failure of democracy.

Another interesting point and question: as the current Israeli wholesale terrorist attacks, with unconditiional U.S. support, are almost certain to elicit a retail terrorist response, is it possible that that is one of its purposes? It will justify further Israeli dispossession of Palestinian land and water, and will benefit the thus far unchallengeable militarization and power projection of the U.S. security state and keep Obama under constraint (if he needs more than is already built-in).

By Ed Herman, at Sunday, January 04, 2009 11:28:00 PM
I second The People of Gaza post. Please call the show and express your support to all victims of war, including those slaughtered by the hundreds and who are living under an embargo.

Latest statistics as of 2 hours ago:

Number of Palestinians dead = 509

Number of Israeli dead = 5, one of them a soldier

Number of Palestinians wounded = 2,400

According to the United Nations: 20% of dead Palestinians are women and children and 40% of wounded are also women and children.

Videos show Israel using cluster munitions on compact urban areas.

A blockade has been in place for a year and a half even during the 6 month truce agreement. Israel continues to deny entry or exit to anyone from Gaza. The only journalist allowed inside is the Aljazeera correspondent who happened to be there at the time. Journalists around the world have filed an official complaint with the Israeli authorities.

People are begging the Red Cross to pick up their dead relatives from the streets.

2.5 million people protested in Morocco against the assasult.

Tens of thousands of people are protesting in many cities around the world.

The Arab leaders are bickering amongst themselves as usual, but they are trying to appease their populations.

5 ambulance medics and one doctor have been killed by the Israeli.

The hospitals are overflowing, the doctors and nurses are not able to get to people on time. People are dying on the floors of hospitals. They are also being treated on the floor because there are no more beds available. No electricity in most of Gaza, no water. No medicine, nothing except what was being smuggled.

The media in the US is manipulating the news and distorting the background to the assault. Hamas did NOT violate the terms of any ceasefire. Israel continued to kill Palestinians through assassinations and missions during the truce and implemented the embargo.

Immediately after the democratic elections in which Hamas won, Israeli authorities proceded to arrest members of the Palestinian parliament without charge. Two years later, four of them are still in prison without being charged. That was a political move to deny the current Palestinian government the authority to vote on anything and to give their rivals in Fatah the ability to split the solidarity.

But, most importantly, civilians continue to suffer in this brutal assault. The children suffer from PTSD as they watch their siblings and parents torn to pieces in front of their eyes.

The Zionist ideology is neither good for the Palestinians nor the Israelis. It is a racist ideology based on exclusion and treating Arabs as sub-human.

All nations, except the US and Israel who are cheering the murder of innocents, are expressing outrage and anger and going out onto the streets, as any human being with an ounce of decency would do.

The root of the problem remains the occupation. It is ironic that the fourth strongest nation in the world with all the nuclear arsenals always feels "compelled" to terrorize Arab civilians to "protect" its people.

The Israelis failed to achieve their supposed objectives in Lebanon in 2006. Their soldiers were returned to them in body bags 2 years after the fact in a prisoner swap the way they had always done it with Hizbollah. They could have done that without all the killing of civilians.

In Palestine, Gil'ad shalit, the Israeli soldier, is still imprisoned by Hamas, but so are countless other Palestinians by Israel, including the 4 Palestinian Parliamentarians.

The current assault has been planned for 8 months as admitted by a spokesperson on behalf of Israel today. Israel is doing this for 2 reasons: the American elections and the Israeli elections coming up in February. They want to force Obama's hand and they want to grab as much as they can so they can have the upper hand when they do finally come to another negotiating table.

As I said before, do not listen to what they tell you they are going to do but what they have done in the past, and what they have done has always been underhanded and immoral.

How are occupied people supposed to resist occupiers and fight for their rights, especially if they have no planes, no tanks, no control over their airspace, no airport, and when they can be denied entry and exit into their own territory by the occupying colonizer that so-called "withdrew" from Gaza. Well, THEY'RE BACK!

Visit this link.

By Marilyn, at Sunday, January 04, 2009 11:39:00 PM
Ed,

I think Obama is already in the pocket of the Zionists in our government. Some people I talk to think that he cannot say much at this point which, I guess could be true, but as you aptly pointed out, where is the dissent in this democracy? The silence with which this wholesale slaughter and terror against people is being tolerated and encouraged, including by some Arab leaders in the Middle East, is hitting people of conscience hard across the globe, and not only Arabs and Muslims but people from all nationalities and religions.

There is something unholy about awesome military elitist machinery that can inflict such damage on people's bodies and souls while taunting them and threatening the survivors with more to "teach them a lesson." There is something deeply evil about that way of thinking and being. Any state or any leadership that subscribes to that way of thinking should not be included as part of the moral paradigm of the civilized world. But, I guess the Judeo-Christian guilt ridden psyche of the Western world is willing to tolerate the wholesale slaughter of people of other faiths and nationalities to appease their own sense of guilt for the crimes of their forefathers. You have to listen to the way they frame the argument where the blame is absolute and Hamas, and therefore the whole Palestinian population, are to blame for their own murders. It is like raping the victim twice, and while raping them you keep telling them how they do not deserve anything better because they brought it upon themselves.

This has to be an eye opener to anyone who still doubts that this is really a war against the poor of the world, and they happpen to be non-European at this time. Israeli ideology is based on European colonial premises. The Jewish Arabs of Israel are outraged at what is happening to their brothers and sisters in Gaza.

It is a war against the little people and that is what people around the world are reacting to. I think Israel has really miscalculated for the second time in 3 years, but they have really done it this time. Karma is a bummer, and time to pay the fiddler according to even their religious ideology (for those handful of them who are not atheist).

By Marilyn, at Sunday, January 04, 2009 11:56:00 PM
Who started this fight -- Israel or Hamas?

It was Hamas!!!!! Pure and simple. End of story. They want to fight? They're going to get one. They have no one to blame but themselves.

By Hannitized, at Monday, January 05, 2009 12:16:00 AM
Let's see; Israel has all of the resources in the immediate area, has a blockade of all entry points into Gaza, they won't allow humane relief shipments in, no medicine or food or means to produce food, Gaza has no real employment options- Hamas comes into power in democratically held elections because they were the ones building schools and hospitals, BUT, because there are some members of Hamas that are hard line extremists who want Israel to not exist, Israel has every right to attack with all of the military might they can (much of the firepower furnished by our government), Israel has every right to kill, maim and wound as many civilians as they feel like, no one is allowed to question what they are doing because to do so means that you are obviously an anti-semite, and the media in the US will only tout the Israeli point of view. Sounds about like what is going on to me. Why won't anyone in elected office in our government say this is wrong? Proportional response; four dead Israelis to over 500 Palestinians? Proportional response? Hardly. If you want a clue as to part of the root of the problem here, read the book "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein. She outlines how economic shocks to whole countries serve the purpose of dehumanizing entire segments of populations to enrich a very select group only, and much to the detriment of a very large group. What does Israel gain by destroying the elected leadership of Hamas? With no real effective government leadership in Gaza, who decides what happens? Israel? It kind of seems similar to the US invading Mexico, if some idiots down there fired rockets at US cities; do you honestly think that we would invade? Or do you think that we would find out where they were coming from and initiate a proportional response? The problem is not with the country of Israel, nor the citizens either; it is with the ultra hard right leaders who think that they can do absolutely anything they want to, and nobody can tell them otherwise. I would be interested to find out how much this invasion costs Israel in real dollars, and then look to see how much good they could have accomplished by putting that much money into jobs and trade, training and schools, medicine and food for Gaza, instead blowing it up and killing so many innocent people. The situation is infuriating, to say the least.

By Downtown Bob, at Monday, January 05, 2009 1:04:00 AM
"We support the Gazan people without supporting the rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas"

The two can't be separated.

That would be like supporting Saddam Hussein without supporting his slaughtering 2.5 million innocent Iraqi civilians.

Hamas started this and Israel will end it. And that is a good thing.

Hamas fires rockets indiscriminately into Israeli cities and has for years unabated.

It's time for these terrorists to be stopped in their tracks. Gaza people have been warned, so has Hamas. The best solution is for the Palestinians to go back to their home country Syria. The Palestinians never belonged nor had any right to be in Israel or any surrounding area. You would know this if you knew your world history.

Obama will support Israel after giving some eloquent speech. The truth will soon be known that Obama is a center-right politition.

The war on terror will not cease until the planet is safe from those Islamo-terrorists. This is how it should be.

As for Cal Poly students...I'll talk to them in 15 years when they have grown up.

By I support Israel, at Monday, January 05, 2009 7:24:00 AM
Does size denote right? Are Israel and the U.S. not terrorists because they are accepted nations and possess a standing military?
How convenient. What a world and national disgrace.

By norske, at Monday, January 05, 2009 10:46:00 AM
I Support Israel says:

"We support the Gazan people without supporting the rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas"

The two can't be separated.

That would be like supporting Saddam Hussein without supporting his slaughtering 2.5 million innocent Iraqi civilians.

Actually, no. It would be more like supporting the American people without supporting the Bush Administration that manufactured evidence, sold it to the too-trusting Congress and invaded/occupied a country that was not a threat to us.

So you really can support the people of Gaza even as you reject those among them who foolishly taunt the lion next door...

The bottom line, though, is that a solution must be reached, and this solution must include the establishment of a sovereign Palestinian state. If that state attacks Israel, all bets are off.

By Liam, at Monday, January 05, 2009 10:53:00 AM
There will be no peace in the Middle East between Israel and the arabs who are refered to as Palestinians. It is the arabs who continue to segregate the arabs called palestinians in refugee camps in Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. The arabs in these countries will not and will never assimilate palestinians into their country's cultures because to do so would be to admit defeat against the Zionists, as Marilyn refered to them. By keeping the palestinian arabs segregated and enraged, the arab states have a ready army of men, women and children to continue to fight against Israel. The arab states, and the persians in Iran, continue to fund every effort of Hamas to keep up the fight against Israel. How many times was Arafat the Terrorist offered the West Bank as a separate palestinian state only to refuse the offers and ramp up the fighting? Easily three times by my count. The palestinian arabs only want the lands now called israel back and no other and the arab states in the region are going out of their way to see that it happens. Ask yourself this question: Where did the rockets that Hamas has been firing into Israel come from in the first place? Hamas does not design and produce their own rocket systems. These are mostly Russian made Katuysha rocket systems, probably from Syria. They come from arab states and arab arms dealers ensuring a destabilized Israel and ensuring that there will be no peace between jews and arabs.

By no peace in the middle east, at Monday, January 05, 2009 11:47:00 AM
Japan was encircled by a blockade which forced them to act, their attack on Pearl Harbor necessitated a response... Bush ordered the abuse and torture of prisoners and detainees in Iraq, Guantanamo and Black Op sites which resulted in a rise in "terrorist" activities, which of course necessitated a response...
Israel put up a blockade of Gaza, Hamas then of course sent outmoded and largely ineffectual but dangerous rockets into Israel, who of course responded...
Very simplistic I know.
In as much as Bob and Marilyn said the same thing, I thought that I would make it as simple as possible.
Some people only see what they want to see and only hear what they want to hear.
The same people who say that Israel has the right to attack because Hamas launches rockets, are strangely silent on the rights of the Palestinians after they have been blockaded, mistreated and abused, all in violation of the Geneva Convention. But since when do we let a quaint little idea such as the Geneva Convention get in our way or those we use as our proxies?

By norske, at Monday, January 05, 2009 12:18:00 PM
1) Hamas illegally takes over the government of the occupying Palestinians in 2005.
2) Hamas terrorists take up their terror strongholds amidst the people of Gaza in hospitals, schools and neighborhoods.
3) Hamas refuses to accept the nation and people of Israel
4) Hamas sends 200+ rockets a day in Israeli cities killing innocent civilians
5) Hamas sends suicide bombers into Israel with the express purpose of terrorizing and killing the people of Israel
6) Iran smuggles into Gaza larger and more dangerous rockets
7) Iran smuggles in Gaza volunteer suicide bombers
8)Hamas refuses to honor peace accords reached between the nations of the world and Israel and Palestine.

Then Israel decides to finally, after years of being bombed, to defend and protect it's citizens and is now in the process of crippling the terrorist organization of Hamas that it is supported by the terrorist regime of Iran.

And you folks are supporting Hamas?

Hamas needs to be wiped off the face of the map as they have said they will never cease fire and they will never recognize the legitimate nation of Israel (the only democratic society in the middle east except for Iraq -Thank you George Bush!)

You folks better get your priorities straight. Hamas, Hezbollah and the rest of the Islamo-terrorists organizations do NOT want to negotiate...They want you and all free people DEAD!

Do any of you read your history books or do you get everything straight from Keith Overbite on MSLSD?

Every leader of every free country around the world supports Israel including your precious Obama. Wake up and join the party.

Islamo-terror must end.

PS: Read your history. The Palestinians homeland is in Syria, not in Israel.

By historian, at Monday, January 05, 2009 12:39:00 PM
The real question is: does Israel have the right to exist as a soverign nation?

Those of us that do think that Israel is a soverign nation and has the right to exist feel that Israel is taking all of the steps similar to what the United States did after Pearl Harbor and 9/11. Israel is perfectly justified in errecting the barrier between the West Bank and Israel proper to prevent terrorist attacks on their citizens by terrorists much like the United States has done on our southern border to prevent illegal aliens that drive drunk and run people down, murder innocent college kids, rape and murder women and children all across America. Would America's response be any different than Israel's if Mexican drug lords started firing missiles into El Paso or San Diego? Of course not. Americans everywhere would be demanding that the United States invade Mexico for the 13th time to clean up the border towns and end the reign of terror the drug lords. So if Israel's existance is legit, then their response to acts of war is legit. The question then comes down to the porportionality of the response. Using cluster bombs on civilian areas is unacceptable for us in the United States. However, as another soverign nation, are we in a position to dictate terms and conditions to other soverign nations? Isn't that what the United States did when we invaded Iraq? We told the iraqi people that their government was illegitimate and needed to be overthrown by force of arms.

If you believe as the resident swede, as well as Marilyn and Bob, that Israel does not have the right to exist therefore their actions are incredibly illegal and the United States is wrong in continuing to support an illegal regime that has stolen the territory from its rightful owners the palestinian people.

I have to agree with "no peace": there will never be peace in the Middle East. More and more it appears that the arab people live to be ruled by one strong man after another and live to be at war with their neighbors and themselves.

By big tent republican, at Monday, January 05, 2009 1:05:00 PM
I don't know what history books they use in Sweden but Japan was not blockaded by the United States prior to World War II. That is a completely bogus and untrue version of what led to World War II. Japan and the United States were on a collision course for war begining immediately after World War I. The Japanese had their eyes on the "East Asian Co-properity Sphere" that would ensure that Japan had as much coal, oil and iron that Japanese industry required. The only threat to Japanese hegemony in the eastern Pacific was the United States naval bases in the Phillipines, Guam, Wake Island, Midway and Hawaii, as well as the British bases in Singapore, Hong Kong and Indonesia. The Japanese had already seized the coal and iron mines in Manchuria, what they needed was secure sea lanes to the sources of petroleum and that was Indonesia. The US base at Subic Bay in the Phillipines stood in the way of that. Japan's imperial designs were manifest in the two Russo-Japanese wars, the seizure of German islands after WWI and the conquests of Korea and Manchuria.

The United States recognized japan as a early near-peer competator in the pacific and even had war plans drawn up against Japan as early as 1919 with the "Rainbow" plans. Plan Orange was United States at war with Japan. This gave the reason behind the Navy's development of the aircraft carrier and the continued building of battleships.

So get a real book and educate yourself before you try to create fictional parallels between what is happening and what you think has happened. Stop with the pretzel twisting to get to "Bush created terrorists" "Israel is evil" and just come out and say it. History does not support your bogus claims.

By big tent republican, at Monday, January 05, 2009 1:27:00 PM
I submit if people are going to continue using the education meme, at least get your facts straight. T
Why does the U.S. support Israel?
It has only been relatively recently, mainly after Israel destroyed Nasser. The Middle East had been controlled for the US by peripheral non-Arab states. When the Shah collapsed in 79, Israel's role became even more important. Add to that it was helping the US evade the sanctions against South Africa, supporting terrorist states and terrorist groups in Central America when Reagan was blocked by Congress and other proxy uses which served our strategic and more importantly corporate interests. Israel was our bully on the street so to speak.
It's all corporate America, just look at the investments.
The Palestinians have nothing to offer the US. PEOPLE HAVE HUMAN RIGHTS INSOFAR AS THEY PROVIDE SERVICES TO POWER.
Israel provides substantial services to US power. Palestinians on the other hand provide nothing. No wealth, no power, just a nuisance. Actually less than nothing because their plight stirs up antagonism in Arab populations.
Israel needs a Palestinian state, even their right wing admits this. But they want a state which is derisory, one that they can control. They need those inter state tensions.
He who controls the media controls everything. The media coercion in all of this is amazing. It's overwhelming really.
In January 2006 there was a free and carefully monitored election, everyone agreed it was fair; but the "wrong" side won. So what did the US and Israel do? What the US always does when someone we don't like gets freely elected. With EU backing we immediately turned to punishing the population harshly for selecting the wrong people. If we had a free press in the US and England there would be headlines the next day saying the US and Israel and it's EU backers demonstrate their contempt for democracy. What you saw instead is terrorist Hamas which refuses to recognize Israel etc. Hamas though is a political party, it can't recognize Israel anymore than the Democratic Party can recognize Lithuania.
Will Israel and the US accept a Palestinian state? No, they have said so, not one that comes anywhere near the international consensus on the two state settlement.
On this issue, Hamas has been more forthcoming than the US and Israel.
There is plenty to criticize about Hamas, but where to start the criticism and where is the press?
The beginning of Animal Farm sums it up well. The press is owned by wealthy men who have every reason not to want certain ideas to be expressed. Second and ore important, is that proper EDUCATION instills into people the understanding that there are certain things it just wouldn't do to say. It's part of your nature if you are properly educated, you are indoctrinated into tacitly accepting a framework of assumptions which shape what you say and what you think. I think there is a lot of truth in that.

By norske, at Monday, January 05, 2009 2:32:00 PM
Marilyn,
If what you say is true then why is Hamas still firing rockets at Israel?

If they stopped, and for good, then Israel would not have to defend her nation and her people.

Then the poor little palastinians could build bigger hospitals and water treatment facilities etc.

Hamas brought this on themselves. And to be quite frank...they messed with the wrong army.

Now Israel must win and Hamas must be replaced with a true and peaceful government that does care about it's people. Try that and see what happens.

This will not be like Lebanon. Israel will finish it this time.

Alevai! Beytsim!

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 05, 2009 3:58:00 PM
This was broadcast by CBS early news with an interview with a Norwegian doctor working in Ghaza.

By Marilyn, at Monday, January 05, 2009 5:33:00 PM
from PressTV.Ir

War on Gaza - Timeline
Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:24:35 GMT
The following is a timeline of events leading to the ongoing violence in the Gaza Strip that began on December 27 with Israel's aerial bombardment of Hamas-linked compounds in the coastal sliver:

2008
June 19: An Egyptian mediated ceasefire begins between Hamas and Israel. The Palestinian movement agrees to stop firing rockets as Israel accepts to gradually ease its embargo on the Gaza Strip.
July 27: Israel kills Shihab al-Natsheh, a senior Hamas fighter, in his house in the West Bank city of al-Khalil.
August 2: Three Hamas police officers and six pro-Fatah gunmen are killed in factional fighting in the Gaza Strip, the worst of such since June 2007.
October 8: Israel prevents Physicians for Human Rights (PHR) from entering the embattled Gaza Strip.
November 5: Israel raids houses in the Hamas-controlled region and arrests seven Palestinians.
Israel attacks areas inside Gaza, killing at least six Palestinians. Ghassan el-Taramse, a nineteen-year-old Palestinian activist, is killed in an Israeli air raid in the northern parts of the coastal sliver.
Palestinians fire several dozen rockets and mortar shells at western Negev in Israel in retaliation. No casualties or property damage is caused, but three women are treated for shock.
November 8: Israel violates the ongoing truce as its tanks and bulldozers cross the southern border of the Gaza Strip.
November 14: Hamas fires a barrage of homemade rockets at the city of Ashkelon. Four rockets are also fired into western Negev after Israeli air strikes wounded two people in Gaza.
November 15: Israeli air strike kills two Palestinians in the town of Beit Hanoun in Gaza.
November 18: Israeli tanks backed by a bulldozer and a military jeep roll half a kilometer into Gaza. The Israeli army claims the incursion is "a routine operation to uncover explosive devices near the border fence in the southern Gaza Strip."
November 20: An Israeli tank fires shells, killing a Palestinian fighter east of Gaza City.
November 23: The Israeli army wounds two Palestinian residents while shelling homes in various cities in the strip.
November 28: Israeli forces backed by tanks enter the southern parts of the coastal region and kill two Palestinians.
November 29: Projectiles fired from the Gaza Strip wound eight Israeli soldiers in an army base in the town of Nahal Uz.
December 02: The Israeli army launches air strikes into southern Gaza and kills at least two civilians and wounding four others.
December 17: Five Qassam rockets fired from the Gaza Strip injure two Israelis in the southern town of Sderot.
December 18: A Palestinian man is killed in Jabaliya as Israeli aircraft target metal workshops in the towns of Jabaliya and Khan Yunis in the Gaza Strip. The Israeli military claims the targets are used to manufacture rockets.
December 19: The six-month truce officially ends.
December 20: Israeli launches air strikes on the northern Gazan town of Beit Lahiya, killing one Palestinian and wounding two others.
December 21: Palestinian fighters fire rockets into Sderot and Negev and one Israeli is wounded.
December 22: A twenty-four hour truce is declared between Israel and armed Palestinian factions at the request of Egyptian mediators.
December 23: The twenty-four hour truce expires.
Clashes between Israeli forces and Palestinian resistance fighters leave three members of the Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades dead along the border fence in northern Gaza.
Six Qassam rockets are fired into western Negev. The rocket attacks do not hit any targets in Israel.
December 24: Gaza fighters fire two dozen mortar shells at three different targets inside Israel.
An Israeli air raid kills a Palestinian and wounds two others in southern Gaza.
December 27: Israeli F16 bombers and apache helicopters carry out at least 30 simultaneous raids on various targets across the Gaza strip. The operation kills at least 230 and wounds hundreds of Palestinians.
Hamas responds with rocket fire from Gaza and kills one Israeli in the southern town of Netivot.
December 28: Israel begins a fresh wave of air strikes. Israel deploys tanks and troops along the Gaza border. Tunnels in and out of Gaza are bombed.
A Hamas missile strikes near the largest city in the south of the occupied lands, the deepest reach into Israel to the date.
Global protests against the Israeli attacks begin.
Palestinian death toll rises to 296; 900 are injured.
December 29: The third day of attacks on the strip brings the death toll to 340. At least 1,400 Palestinians are wounded.
Muslim world announces day of mourning.
Two more Israelis are killed and one is injured.
December 30: Israeli air operations continue as Tel Aviv declares the area around Gaza a 'closed military zone'.
Israeli floats the idea that a ground invasion of Gaza is imminent.
Palestinian casualties rise to 360 dead and 1,500 injured.
December 31: Israel continues tunnel attacks and civilian casualties increase.
Hamas says Gaza will be victorious.
The UN and Arab League find no solution to end the crisis.
Palestinian death toll rises to 400 with 1,600 injured.
January 1: Israeli bombardments continue; first senior Hamas official dies in air attacks.
Israel denies a 48-hour request for humanitarian aid to enter Gaza by rejecting an EU truce.
Hamas calls for Palestinian protests; it rockets hit several positions.
417 Palestinians and 6 Israelis dead.
January 2: Curfew imposed on West Bank and foreigners are told to leave Gaza.
Top Israeli ministers discuss ground invasion into the Gaza Strip. The United Nations condemns Israel and describes situation in Gaza as "appalling".
Kadima, Israel's ruling party, losses ground in polls ahead of elections.
Death toll continues to rise.
January 3: A senior leader of the armed wing of the Palestinian Hamas is killed in Israeli air strikes in Gaza.
Hamas warns Israel not to "commit the stupidity" of taking its offensive to the next level. The group says its fighters have foiled an attempt by Israeli ground forces to cross the border into the Gaza Strip.
The Israeli cabinet approves a military ground incursion in the Gaza Strip.
Israeli warplanes bomb a bridge linking Gaza City to the rest of the coastal slither.
Hamas fires eight rockets into Israel, seven into the Western Negev and one into the Eshkol region.
Israeli warplanes raid several targets in Gaza and kill four people.
A Hamas rocket hits a four-story building in Ashdod -- Israel's second largest port - and lightly wounds four people.
An Israeli air raid on a mosque in the Gaza Strip kills at least 16 Palestinians.
Israeli tanks begin shelling areas inside the strip, causing a large explosion in Gaza City as well as a series of blasts stitching the nearby frontier with Israel.
Israeli tanks roll into Gaza.
A Palestinian rocket destroys a house in the Israeli city of Netivot.
Israel bans a Red Cross medical team from entering Gaza to treat injured residents.
Hamas says that nine Israeli soldiers have been killed and 25 wounded.
The United Nations Security Council calls for an emergency meeting.
January 4: United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon calls for an immediate cessation of the Israeli ground invasion of the Gaza Strip.
Israeli warplanes bomb the coastal region, lighting up the sky hours before sunrise.
The United States blocks a UN Security Council bid to require an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza Strip.
Israeli bombers hit the Hamas-run al-Aqsa radio station inside Gaza.
A Palestinian ambush allegedly kills five Israeli troops.
Hamas says its fighters have captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes with invading Israeli troops in the Gaza Strip.
Israeli forces surround the largest city in the Palestinian territories, Gaza City.
Clashes continue between Israeli troops and Hamas fighters in four spots in the north, around Gaza City, Beit Hanun, Beit Lahiya and Jabaliya.
Gaza resistance fighters fire ten more rockets into Israeli cities, two targeted at western Negev and three hit Sderot city.
Israeli bombers target heavily populated areas inside the Gaza Strip, killing five Palestinian civilians and wounding 40 others.
Medics inside Gaza confirm that they have found traces of depleted uranium in some Palestinians wounded in the Israeli ground offensive.
Israel kills two senior Hamas officials, Hussam Hamdan and Muhammad Hilo, in an air strike on Khan Yunis.
Palestinian fighters fire at least 40 Qassam and Grad rockets into southern Israel.
Israeli President Shimon Peres rejects the possibility of a ceasefire.
Palestinians target an Israeli helicopter and allegedly destroy seven Israeli tanks

By geo, at Monday, January 05, 2009 6:22:00 PM
To Anonymous,

The reason Hamas "continued" (it did not really "continue;" that is a misrepresentation right there) to fire rockets was because Israel continued to kill and target them after the agreement was signed. Hamas stopped suicide bombings after the agreement. You people never seem to notice the daily atrocities that the Israeli occupation forces inflict on Palestinians when there are no rockets or suicide bombers by Hamas because in your mind those casualties are not important.

Daily killing of Palestinians, kidnapping, blowing up homes, and bulldozing olive trees have been non-stop, INCLUDING during the agreement when Hamas stuck by the promise of no suicide bombers, yet the Israelis continued to agitate and kill more Palestinians.

They have consistently prevented pregnant women and sick children from commuting to hospital. Many died waiting to be taken care of.

Physicians and medical and humanitarian aid are consistently denied to Palestinians.

Are YOU AND YOUR FAMILY AND PEOPLE willing to live under such conditions day in and day out? Would YOU tolerate such inhuman behavior or would you be on the front lines trying to retrieve some dignity to your family and people?

Let's face it, Arab and Muslim lives are much cheaper to many.

Go back over the past 2 years and see what Israel was doing while there was a ceasefire agreement. I think geo gave an inkling of what it was like.

By Marilyn, at Monday, January 05, 2009 8:52:00 PM
Hey Anonymous again,

Were you one of those cheering during Israel's assault on Lebanon and gloating about how Israel was going to destroy Hizbollah and while stating that the Lebanese civilians deserved what was happening to them like you are claiming here that the Palestinians civilians deserve it?

We get it, you prefer Hebrew to English and the Star of David to the Stars and Stripes.

But remember, even Rome fell.

By Marilyn, at Monday, January 05, 2009 9:04:00 PM
What is this obsession with Hamas stating that Israel does not have the right to exist. Most Israelis and many bloggers here are stating the same about the Palestinians in other terms and many are claiming that they need to go back to Syria (how about Russia and New York?).

What you are saying is that Palestine does not have the right to exist. Should we bomb all Big Tents because a bunch of other big tents said that?

Maybe we should bomb all those who say that the Palestinians do not have a right to exist.

Have you guys seen the Israeli polls about how they feel about Palestinians? Do you remember the plans put forth in the Knesset to deport all of them? Is that denying their right to exist or not? But as I said, Arab and Muslim lives are cheap. The white sheets are showing again.

But then again, when Armageddon comes, you guys aren't going to care about anyone, Muslim or Jew. All you will care about is your own rapture.

Well, go get yourself raptured and leave the rest of us, including Arabs, and Jews alone.

I am sorry Dave, but your guest completely sidestepped the two important issues he was asked to address:

1- Under the Geneva Conventions and International Law, all occupied people have the right to resist their occupiers and all occupiers are obligated to protect the people whose lands they occupy. What would constitute, in his view, a legitimate form of resistance when Palestinian rights are violated under the occupation (geo listed many of them aptly)?

2- If Israel has the right to invade and attack Palestinian territory and people because Hamas does not believe in the right of Israel to exist, should the Palestinians attack Israel when Israelis claim that there is no such thing as a Palestinian and therefore, as a Palestinian nation and as Palestinians they do not have the right to exist?

As I said, Israel will never willingly give back an inch that belongs to Palestinians even if the Palestinians sprawled on all fours and prayed to their jailers on a daily basis. The Zionist ideology that created the state of Israel in the first place was a conquering ideology based on a belief in the superiority of the few and the inferiority of Arabs. As such, it is a racist ideology. Jewish Arabs are second class citizens in Israel.

The only fair solution I see is a one state solution where both Jews and non-Jews (including Muslims, Christians, Atheists, Buddhists, and Little Pink Men) can live together in a democratic secular state. Short of that there will never be peace because there is no way Israel will allow the Palestinians their own territory with full control. Zionists are such control freaks anyway and they think they have the right to biblically discipline those who are subservient to them, although many of them have never felt the soul of God.

I have had the fortune of meeting and befriending many Jews over my lifetime and I can assure you, when it comes to compassion and empathy for others, the ones who suffered through the holocaust or who were related to someone who was, were the least likely to belittle the suffering of Palestinians or any other group of people.

In 2004 I attended a conference on genocide at Cal State Sacramento and was privileged to meet Professor John Steiner from Prague who was a holocaust survivor. He was able to go back and confront his jailers and develop the ability to heal. He was one of the most moral and compassionate people I had ever met. There are many more like him, and they are not the ones stealing Palestinian land and oppressing them.

By Marilyn, at Monday, January 05, 2009 9:46:00 PM
Big Tent: You stated: "If you believe as the resident swede, as well as Marilyn and Bob, that Israel does not have the right to exist therefore ... "um, that is not what I said or implied, period. What I did write is this: "The problem is not with the country of Israel, nor the citizens either; it is with the ultra hard right leaders who think that they can do absolutely anything they want to, and nobody can tell them otherwise." But then again, Tent, you will only read what you want to see. I questioned the actions of Israel, therefore I must be anti-semite, in the view of people who think like you, period. WRONG! Just because you think or believe something about someone does not make it so. I have no beef with Israeli citizens or the government structure of Israel, just as many people of the world had no beef with us or our government about our invading Iraq, but they did have a problem with our hard right leaning leaders who more concerned about polling, about how their stance was propping up their base supporters, about how much money could be funneled to their business allies, and how much energy was focused on the next election(s) {2002, 2004, 2006} and what the voting public perceived as the Bush Administration as doing the right thing and doing it well. Israel has elections coming up soon; the leading candidates are very hard leaning right wing fundamentalists who see an opportunity to gain political favor with their voting public because they are taking such a hard line stance in dealing with the Gaza area.
But that's okay, Tent; go on believing what you will, don't let facts deter you from your myopic views.

By Downtown Bob, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:41:00 AM
Does anyone find it ironic or even sick that Hitler's book Mein Kampf is published today far more in the arabic language than in German?

You need only go back to your history books to the beginning of WWll to see where the muslim nation became connected to Hitler and rallied around their hatred of Jews.

Doubt me? Look it up.

By historian, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:42:00 AM
Israel will prevail. Israel can not trust Obama since so many of his ties to terrorist organizations have been uncovered.
Israel can trust America and her support.
But Israel will finish this job. They will defeat Hamas...destroy them and they will no longer be in power.
This is what they should have done to Hezbullah when they had the chance. God forbid if Hezbullah raises her ugly head again against Israel again.
The nation of Islam must be stopped. Terrorism must end. Terrorist attacks on free peoples and democracies will no longer be tollerated by the free people of the world. Iran will not achieve a nuclear bomb or if they do they will be destroyed by the same.

This is the new world of freedom and democracy where Israel will live in peace and terrorism will be stopped globally.

Praise be to Yaweh!

By Peace is won through victory, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 8:19:00 AM
No surprise, in the end, to the uninformed and misled, it comes down to my religion is better than your religion. Muslim vs Judeo Christian. Arab vs you name it.
Unwrap the BS and it's about dollars and cents. Israel, Israelis, are worth more than Gaza, Palestinians. Follow the money.
Human rights only matter if there is profitability in it, real or perceived.
"Swede" cute. Par for the course.

By norske, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:44:00 AM
Peace is won: Wow. Where to start; or if I even should. If Israel wishes peace, then they should work for peace; peace through war is simply an absence of war, it is not "peace". I would certainly prefer that the residents of Gaza would work for justice through peaceful means such as what Ghandi was able to achieve, but that is up to them. I just wonder if you are willfully ignorant, blissfully stupid, or so attached to the viewpoint of a particular political bent that facts simply don't matter. The facts, as stated by many sources in the world media, some illuminated here by Marilyn and Geo, point to a much more intricate problem than our corporate media here in the US will report. Rocket attacks on Israel from Gaza is not the only reason for Israel's response, it is a convenient matter for them to respond to; but it still remains a much more complex issue. But go ahead, ignore facts, ignore real reporting, and cheerlead for death and destruction. Sad.

By Downtown Bob, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:07:00 AM
Bob, I wish you would spend as much time addressing what I said instead of addressing what you didn't say. Your blog post always seem to boil down to restating what you said while never addressing the meat of anyone else's posts. Okay, so you're not an anti-semite. Fine, whatever.

But does Israel have the right to exist and self-defense, Bob? That is the question you have yet to answer.

Marilyn, Marilyn, Marilyn. What are you prattling on about? You seem to forget that no Arab state has signed any treaties of any kind with Palestine. Why? It doesn't exist. Israel, on the other hand, does exist, is recognized by the the U.N. and 95% of the world governments, and has two peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, arab nations both. There is no Palestine to negotiate with. There is Mahmoud Abbas as the head of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. But who in Hamas should Israel negotiate with in Gaza? Negotiating with Hamas on the cessation of hostilities is like negotiating with a child rapist on how and when they can rape your child. Hamas is a terrorist organization, period. They use terrorist tactics on civilians, period. And there is one state where Jews and non-jews can live side by side in peace. It's called Israel. There are tens thousand and thousands of palestinian arabs that live and work in Israel every day. Actually the number is close to about 1.4 million Arabs live within Israel. So the single state solution you seek exists today, unfortunately you are too busy railing your anti-semitism against the "Zionists". Instead of placing blame on both sides, you are all too willing to believe wholeheartedly every single propaganda piece Hamas puts out. It is a fact that terrorists in Fallujah put families in buildings wired to explode. When the US dropped a bomb anywhere, the terrorists would detonate the explosives and drop the house on the family and claim it was destroyed by a US bomb during the airstrike. Hamas is doing exactly the same thing. They are also taking the pages from the Hezbollah book by parading dead people killed days early as 'fresh' victims of Israeli agression. Marilyn and the anti-Israel people on this blog and elsewhere lap this up instantly because it fits their mental model of what warmongering Israelis, backed by the warmongering US, are perceived as doing.

Keep drinking the Kool-aid, folks. Damn, don't that anti-Israel Kool-aid taste SOOOOO good?

By big tent republican, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:40:00 AM
Big Tent: Okay. Israel has every right to exist as a country; as such they should observe all treaties and rulings from the United Nations. Do the people living in Gaza have a right to exist?

By Downtown Bob, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:21:00 PM
Woudl one self-professed liberal answer with a yes or a no the only salient question on this thread:

Does Israel have the right to exist and therefore has the right to self-defense against threats to them as a soverign nation?

All other comments by Bob, Marilyn, Norske or anyone else are irrelevent until they frame the discussion by answering this question.

By big tent republican, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:30:00 PM
You sure take a long walk around the south forty to try and make a point.
Lets keep it simple. Does attacking, bombing and killing innocent people drive them more towards being open for negotiations, or does it engender more support for Hamas?
Do you continue to bomb Gaza or make concessions, humane concessions?
What course of action would more likely stop the launching of rockets into Israel?

By norske, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 1:37:00 PM
If the Gaza strip is bordered with Egypt, how is Isreal solely responsible for the blockade of Gaza? It seems to me, if the Palestinian's Arab brothers truly cared about them, then Egypt would allow supplies and food to flow through their broder to the Gaza Strip. Everything I've read and heard says that Egypt has as much to do with the blockade of Gaza as the Isrealis'. Somebody please explain this to me.

By Elvis or algore, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 1:48:00 PM
Dave,

Observations from a friend of mine:

"The thing about warfare is that it never goes according to plan. Having done what could be done with aviation fires over the course of several days, the IDF pushed mechanized infantry and armor into the warren that is Gaza. In the wake of a misguided tank round that killed four of its own soldiers and wounded twenty others, Israeli troops report that they took incoming mortar rounds; counter-fires were applied, and a UN schoolhouse with more than 30 Gazans were killed when - according to the IDF - a chain reaction occurred among the booby-traps, IEDs and cached munitions stored at the school.

This is entirely plausible: Iraqi insurgents often hid weapons and explosives in so-called “no fire areas” such as schoolhouses and mosques, and the propensity of Hamas fighters to hide themselves in the midst of non-combatants is well-known. Even though such sites lose their protected status under the laws of armed conflict when turned to military use, it’s a win-win for the forces of barbarism: If the IDF does not return fire, Hamas militants can shoot from behind the skirts of schoolchildren with impunity. If they do fire, the resulting havoc scores for them a critical information operations victory. The Arab street will run wild with anger while their governments cry crocodile tears, the funding taps are loosened in Qom, Qatar, Riyadh and Dubai and the killing can continue for another generation. And having woven the victim’s mantle by deliberately placing their own children at risk, Hamas can wear it while it promises to deliberately target Israeli schoolchildren. The forces of moral relativism at UN (and elsewhere) have the perfect bloody shirt to wave at the evil Zionists. As if they needed one.

Comparatively safe across the sea from such barbarity, the thinking mind recoils in shock - we want to look away, make it stop, exert the only leverage we have on the only people that can moved by reason.

Surrounded by “neighbors” whose most fervent aspiration is to push them into the sea, the citizens of Israel can afford no such hopeful luxuries."

I believe that he's nailed it.

Regards,

Nick

By Nick Doyle, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:14:00 PM
Since there seems to be a real respect for real truth here try this one on for size.

Hamas is now killing or crippling Palistinian Fatah supporters in Gaza so they can not help Israel.

Here is what they do. Hamas shoots it's own people in the knees and elbows so they will never walk again and can't fight aginst the illegal government of Hamas.

Did you hear me? Hamas is shooting to kill and cripple Palistinains that supprted the legitamate government Fatah.

Even Bob or Marilyn would agree that that is barbaric and inhuman, yet hundreds have already been crippled and 57 have been just executed.

Now, tell me again how you negotiate with that kind of islamo terrorism?
I'm waiting.

(I won't mention that Hamas is dressing like hospital workers so they blend in and can keep attacking the civilians of Israel, and watch for those that support Fatah)

Hamas is a Islamo-terrorist group and must be brought under the rule of law. They swear the death of all Jews. nice people eh?

By an Arab mother of 3, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:25:00 PM
Actually, Nick Doyle, there was no chain reaction at the UN school. What there was consists of a travesty of 3 shells that landed next to the school that contained hundreds of refugees who were forced by Israelis through terrorism of leaflets warning them to leave their homes because their homes were going to be bombed. Those were the same people who were murdered by the Israelis in their shelter. There were 2 other separate attacks on similar schools.

I guess anything is entirely plausible based on the spin you put onto it. History has shown that most Americans do not know the real truth behind the occupation and its tactics of terror over decades upon civilians in the presence or absence of the PLO, Fatah, or Hamas.

Protocol 1 Additional to the 1977 Geneva Conventions has the following to say about civilian protection:

Article 51 of Protocol 1 Additional to the Geneva Conventions, 1977

PART IV: CIVILIAN POPULATION
Section 1: General Protection Against Effects of Hostilities

Chapter I: Basic Rule and Field of Application

Article 51: Protection of the Civilian Population

1. The civilian population and individual civilians shall enjoy general protection against dangers arising from military operations. To give effect to this protection, the following rules, which are additional to other applicable rules of international law, shall be observed in all circumstances.

2. The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.

3. Civilians shall enjoy the protection afforded by this Section, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.

4. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited. Indiscriminate attacks are:

1. those which are not directed at a specific military objective;

2. those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or

3. those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by this Protocol; and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.

5. Among others, the following types of attacks are to be considered as indiscriminate:

1. an attack by bombardment by any methods or means which treats as a single military objective a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects; and

2. an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.

6. Attacks against the civilian population or civilians by way of reprisals are prohibited.

7. The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favor or impede military operations. The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations.

8. Any violation of these prohibitions shall not release the Parties to the conflict from their legal obligations with respect to the civilian population and civilians, including the obligation to take the precautionary measures provided for in Article 57.

Wouldn't you say Israel in engaging of all of the above? That is why the UN is pressing for investigation and accountability.

By Marilyn, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:24:00 PM
Arab Mother of 3,

I thought you guys hated all Palestinians, including Fatah. So, if Hamas and Fatah are fighting against each other, should we encourage the murder of their civilians because they can't get along?

By Marilyn, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:27:00 PM
Of course the IDF never lies.
I'm pro Israel peace.
I'm pro Palestinian peace.
It will take someone like a Carter to bring this fiasco to an end and ensure real negotiations.
It is time to stop pointing fingers and work towards lasting peace. Neither Israel nor Hamas will act on this without American intervention. Bush can't and won't do it, unfortunately he could not do it on his best day.
Obama, whom I have many doubts about, needs to rise to the occasion and end this insanity.

By norske, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:39:00 PM
Elvis,

Actually, Israel is not the only one responsible for the blockade. There has been much rioting in Egypt against the Mubarak regime because of that blockade.

There are those who believe that the Egyptian regime did it for survival. Everyone is walking a tight rope where Israel is concerned. They're damned if they did it one way and they're damned if they did it the other way. They're going to get hammered anyway, especially the Palestinian people. Israel, Egypt, and Abbas, all had a hand in what was happening at the border. The instigator, however, was the occupying colonial state.

This is the introduction from the Israeli paper Ha'aretz from a year ago:

Israel demands that Egypt restore order at Gaza-Egypt border
By Amir Oren, Haaretz Correspondent, and News Agencies
Tags: Hamas, Sinai Peninsula, Egypt

The head of the security-political task force at the Defense Ministry, Amos Gilad, demanded over the weekend that Egypt restore order in Rafah, where thousands of Palestinians have been crossing into Egypt from the Gaza border town through a ruptured barrier since Wednesday.

At the request of Defense Minister Ehud Barak, Gilad spoke to Egyptian officials and demanded that the Egyptian authorities take action to prevent the unsupervised crossing of Gazans back and forth between the two territories.

By Marilyn, at Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:41:00 PM
Norske,

My fear (or hope depending on how you look at it) is that if there is ever a peaceful and equitable solution to this ongoing travesty, it will not come from the American side. American politicians on both sides of the aisle have shown over the years where their allegiances lay, and it is not with the poor people in Palestine. There are too many "bed fellows" among Israeli, American, and some Arab politicians/ regimes. There are a number of American and Israeli politicians who navigate the political scenes of both countries indiscriminately as if they are one.

I am one of the few who believes that the most viable solution is a one-state solution where both Jews and non-Jews can live together under a constitutional democracy (Israel has not drafted a constitution, to this day, by the way). Let's face, neither people is going anywhere. They are killing each other, granted the Palestinian casualties have always exceeded Israeli ones due to sheer metal power.

I am not optimistic for the next two decades. Israel has survived pretty well over the last 60 years doing what it is doing right now. As long as it continues to get handouts and unconditional support from the US, it will be business as usual. I think you are correct there.

The saviors of peace will be the people of the world, not the politicians, especially in the US. As long as you continue to see the manipulation of the media in the US and the inability of the average American to discern the real causes behind what is happening, the poor in Palestine will continue to be slaughtered and the Israeli citizens who are close to occupied Palestine will continue to suffer from fear.

I keep hoping, but it will be up to us, not the politicians, to get that critical mass going to force our governments to change. The Arab leaders should have intervened more forcefully, but they are all for themselves. Governments will change tactics and politics if their survival is threatened by the dissent of their own people, the true purpose of a true democracy.

By Marilyn, at Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:06:00 AM
Islamo-terrorism in the world today has show its real face and stated its main objectives.
1) They want Israel & all Jews off the face of the earth
2) They say their god orders them to do so.

That said and with all the Islamo-terror attacks around the world any free nation is reluctant to negotiate with Muslims as they NEVER keep their word. In fact it is well known that it a practice of those people to consider it acceptable to lie to infidels.

The terrorist leadership of the Palestinians and Syria and Iran and Lebanon will never be "legitimate" in the eyes of the civilized nations of the world. Israel and the USA know this the best.

That said, there will be no peace if Muslims are involved. They don't want peace nor democracy nor anything that smacks of a true civilization. They want to carry out the 3rd and final jihad by wiping Israel off the map and by destroying all western civilizations. They will not be swayed. Peace means nothing to them. They use women and children as fodder for their cause of terror and destruction.

There will be war and strife as long as Muslims are involved. They have never wanted peace in their entire history. Marilyn says the mainstream media is bought off for Israel...well Marilyn this is one thing we agree on...The mainstream media IS bought off...how do you like it now that it's not going your way?

Obama is seen as weak and inexperienced throughout the world and thus ineffective. Israel doesn't trust him and a vast majority of our brave men & women in uniform are very skeptical, as is nearly 50% of Americans. Time will tell but for now he is a non-factor. So Israel must step up and defend herself and must never allow Iran to get a nuke.

Things will be dicey at best for the 4 years of Obama. We see what happens in 2012. For now we wait while nations defend themselves against the hateful terrorist of Islam.

By an Arab Christian mother of 3, at Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:12:00 AM
Thanks for the answer to my question Marilyn. It appears that Egypt is helping to blockade the Gaza Strip at Isreal's request. To me, that makes the Egyptian government complicit in what some call the "imprisionment" of the Palestinians. I'd say the problem over there is more nuanced than putting all the blame on what you call the "Zionists" or "occupiers". Hamas is a terrorist organization, they target and attack Isreali civilians. Then they invite Isreal to send in ground forces into Gaza and brag that they will turn Gaza into the Israeli military's "graveyard". How stupid was that statement? Reminds me of Bush's incredibly ignorant "bring them on" comment about the terrorists in Iraq. Hard for me to generate a whole lot of sympathy for the Palestinians when they elected these leaders, their own Arab brothers in Egypt chose to side with Isreal against them and I remember the footage of Palestinians dancing and celebrating in the streets when 3000 American civilians were killed on 9-11.

By Elvis or algore, at Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:26:00 AM
Anyone who thinks that the national media is biased towards Isael obviously isn't reading the Washington Post.

By Newspaper Reader, at Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:40:00 AM
Arab Christian mother of 3 my ass.
Christians never lie of course, especially the right wing brand of Christianity.
Washington Post. You really need to stop repeating what you see on Fox noise. A Washington Post op ed does not news make. But if it did it would be 100 to 1 ratio of pro Israeli. But you know that don't you. You just enjoy manipulating facts to elicit a response. Doesn't get much lower than that in my opinion.

By norske, at Wednesday, January 07, 2009 11:06:00 AM
The one reality you need to accept here and now Marilyn is that there will never be a state called Palestine that occupies the territory of the present day Israel. The "palestinians" need to understand that the best hope to live in peace in the lands west of the Jordan River is to accept that fact as well or else the bloodshed will continue unabaited for decades. Hamas is not concerned one whit about palestinian civilians or else they would not provoke the soverign state of Israel into reprising against the incessant rocket and terrorist attack from Hamas. If Hamas was concerned at all with the palestinians that voted them to represent them then they would not place those rocket launchers in school yards and residential neighborhoods. Don't try for a second to convince me that Hamas is somehow the good guys, the residents of Gaza are innocent victims and Israel is the lone bad guy in all of this. The best way for Hamas to have prevented Israeli bombs from falling on their constituents heads and Israeli tanks rolling through Gaza would have not launched rockets in to Israel moments after the cease-fire expired on December 19th.

An AP poll said the following: "The lull has been a relief for people on both sides of the border. A poll published Tuesday indicated that 74 percent of Palestinians and 51 percent of Israelis wanted to extend the cease-fire."

Since liberals love to cite polls that say how bad the American public has lost faith in Bush and the war in Iraq, then all of you should recognize that Hamas twarted the will of the Palestinian people. Less palestinians are in favor of Hamas ending the cease-fire than Americans are in favor of President Bush. Your hatred of Bush is less than the palestinians desire to attack Israel. I know you have nothing but more Hamas propaganda and anti-semetic talking points to "refute" this poll... and that's okay. We all know who you are and what you represent.

By big tent republican, at Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:18:00 PM
Dave,

Given the context of the current post, I think this observation from a friend is useful in that it fairly describes Hamas/Islam:

"(Observation 1) Every society has its share of violent, misogynistic, hurtful, etc. people, a number of who will always try and bend their religion to serve as a cover, excuse or justification for their behavior. As a result, all religions have had their fringe cults and sects that have acted out in violent and/or other anti-social ways; that’s just a sad fact of human nature. But Islam, of all of the world’s major religions, seems to be the one most troubled by this problem, while at the same time; the more peaceful (moderate) element in the religion of Islam is seemingly powerless to stop this co-opting from happening.

(Observation 2) It doesn’t matter what verses of the Bible or Koran one chooses to emphasize, or how one may try to interpret them. The ultimate arbiter of what is or what is not a proper Christian or Muslim response is the lives and works of Jesus or Mohammed themselves. Jesus was above all, a man of peace, while Mohammed was anything but a man of peace.

A Christian may try to use scripture to justify or incite others to violence, but because Jesus himself would not have acted in that way, their words will never attract more than a handful of listeners.

But it is the converse that is true for Islam. While there may be many within the Muslim religion that want to live peacefully with their neighbors, Mohammed himself did not live that way. As a result, the voices of the “moderates” carry no weight with the community of Islam as a whole. After all, how can one Muslim, with any authority, tell another not to do what Mohammed himself did do? It’s not that the moderates can’t or won’t speak out against the radical element, it’s that the prophet Mohammed, by the example of his own life, left them with no voice to speak out with.

(Conclusion) That’s why Islam is not, never was, nor can ever be trusted to be a “religion of peace”. Because Mohammed himself was not a peaceful man and by the example of his own life, he has left the door wide open for the more violent element in any community or society, in which Islam is the dominant religion, to turn Islam into a tool to justify their violent actions against others.

In other words, Islam, as a religion, can’t be any more “peaceful” than, as a man, Mohammed was himself."

Sad state of affairs we are in -- a cult of violence passing itself off as a religion.

Regards,

Nick

By Nick Doyle, at Wednesday, January 07, 2009 11:19:00 PM
Dave, Dave, Dave -- where did you find those Cal Poly students tonight? You could barely understand the guy and the woman was pretty weak in her responses. I know they're just college students, but they were making some pretty reckless claims and couldn't handle the callers.

By Chuckman, at Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:10:00 AM
Unbelievable!
During a mutually agreed 3 hour cease fire so that humanitarian aid, food and medical supplies could reeach the Palistinians what does Hamas do? They fire rockets at Israel. The Palisinians are barbaric animals and can not be trusted at all. Israel is right and just in destroying Hamas.

Not to be left out of world news...Hezbollah also starts to fire rockets into Israel.

This time Israel MUST finish the job of destroying Hamas and Hezbullah. To that end Israel has the support of the nations and peoples of the free countries of the world. Not limited to President elect Obama.

The time has come to kill or capture all Islamo terrorists. It is situations like these that prove that G. W. Bush was right in attacking terrorists and their governments, all the while keeping us safe.

By Peace lover, at Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:05:00 AM
If there was a Jesus as depicted in the Bible, he most certainly was not a man of peace. More my religion is better than yours. There are extremists in Israel who feel the same way towards Palestinians as Hamas feels about Israelis. People in Egypt and Jordan said the same things back in the day and now look where they are. I think Obama will rise to the occasion and begin the healing just like Carter did. I just wish that he wouldn't wait. It's time to stop blaming each other and end this disaster.

By Poorboy, at Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:56:00 AM
I am really astounded and very frustrated with the lack of empathy for Israel here. Is Hamas innocent in all this? Do you honestly believe that Hamas is a heroic group dedicated to peace?

For a number of years Hamas has waged an all-out war on Israel with no end in sight. Bombs dropped, suicide bombers in Israel and a media blitz of "we're the victims" has enabled a terrorist group that despises democracy to thrive. Think about it, Hamas doesn't simply hate Israel, they hate the United States as well (and not just because the U.S. supports Israel). Why is there an embargo on Lebanon? Because they are harboring KNOWN terrorists, not because the world hates the people of Lebanon.

The following statistics are from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs:

Statistics of Kassam rocket and mortar fire from the Gaza Strip

Total rocket attacks:

Since the first rocket fell on Israel on 16 April 2001: 4,067
Since the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in August 2005: 3,484
Since the Hamas takeover of Gaza in mid-June 2007: 2,056
This year:
- From 1 Jan through 30 Nov 2008: 1,571

Mortar bomb hits since April 2001: 4,1989

Marilyn, where are your statistics from? I've searched, but cannot find similar numbers or information.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:03:00 PM
It's time for hezbullah and hamas to stop firing rockets into Israel.

When that happens there will be peace. But when those loons think their "god" wants them to kill all infidels and Jews...alas even the golden anointed child Obama won't be able to do squat.

With all due respect the world at large and especially the islamo-terrorists know we have a rookie president. Until something changes nobody is taking him serious.

Israel is right to destroy hamas and then hezbullah and they to nuke Iran. It's the only way to peace. Kill all islamo-terrorists and we can have a peaceful world.

Cater only postponed the inevitable for a short while. Which gave him time to ruin our economy and lust in his heart.

By historian, at Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:09:00 PM
I'm sure that Carter made America do a whole lot of healing during the 444 days that our citizens were held against their will in our embassy in Iran. I'm certain that America had to do a whole lot of healing during the rampant stagflation because of ol' Jimmy.

If Obama is going to heal like Carter healed, then we are royally screwed. Let's hope for America's sake that Obama does a shitload better job than Carter.

By big tent republican, at Thursday, January 08, 2009 2:08:00 PM
Another amazing point of fact: some Hamas sympathizing Hezbollah splinter group launches some rockets from Lebanon into Israel and Israel returned fire with artillery back into Lebanon. Immediately Lebanon stated that they don't want another war with Israel. Immediately hezbollah denies that they have anything to do with it. And rightly so since the 2006 war, hezbollah has a stake in the government of Lebanon and s smigeon of legitimacy. So... If Israel is so wrong for striking Gaza, then where is the terrorist unity with Hamas? Where is the Arab unity with Hamas? Don't try to say that Israel is just so evil that they have terrorists scared of them. Fact is that we may be witnessing the end of Hamas as Marilyn knows it. Israel is forced to go into school and mosques to find and destroy weapons caches, which, according to the Geneva Conventions, removes the protected status of those sites. Hamas violates the Geneva Conventions, they break cease-fires, they fire rockets at non-combatants. Hamas needs to be destroyed once and for all.

By big tent republican, at Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:27:00 PM
"There are extremists in Israel who feel the same way towards Palestinians as Hamas"

Could that be because Hamas has fired thousands and thousands of rockets into Israel over the past number of years? One year firing over 3000 rockets.

Think it through. If Nevada was firing rockets into Sacramento...3000 a year...do you think California would have enough and attack the terrorists? You bet your sweet bippy they would.

This is Karma for Hamas. So be it. My hope is that Israel finishes the job this time and destroys Hamas and then to re-establish a legal and peaceful government there. Hezbulla is next. Enough is enough of this Islamo-facism.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:21:00 PM
I know from personal involvement that the devastating invasion of Gaza by Israel could easily have been avoided.

After visiting Sderot last April and seeing the serious psychological damage caused by the rockets that had fallen in that area, my wife, Rosalynn, and I declared their launching from Gaza to be inexcusable and an act of terrorism. Although casualties were rare (three deaths in seven years), the town was traumatized by the unpredictable explosions. About 3,000 residents had moved to other communities, and the streets, playgrounds and shopping centers were almost empty. Mayor Eli Moyal assembled a group of citizens in his office to meet us and complained that the government of Israel was not stopping the rockets, either through diplomacy or military action.

Knowing that we would soon be seeing Hamas leaders from Gaza and also in Damascus, we promised to assess prospects for a cease-fire. From Egyptian intelligence chief Omar Suleiman, who was negotiating between the Israelis and Hamas, we learned that there was a fundamental difference between the two sides. Hamas wanted a comprehensive cease-fire in both the West Bank and Gaza, and the Israelis refused to discuss anything other than Gaza.

We knew that the 1.5 million inhabitants of Gaza were being starved, as the U.N. special rapporteur on the right to food had found that acute malnutrition in Gaza was on the same scale as in the poorest nations in the southern Sahara, with more than half of all Palestinian families eating only one meal a day.

Palestinian leaders from Gaza were noncommittal on all issues, claiming that rockets were the only way to respond to their imprisonment and to dramatize their humanitarian plight. The top Hamas leaders in Damascus, however, agreed to consider a cease-fire in Gaza only, provided Israel would not attack Gaza and would permit normal humanitarian supplies to be delivered to Palestinian citizens.

After extended discussions with those from Gaza, these Hamas leaders also agreed to accept any peace agreement that might be negotiated between the Israelis and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who also heads the PLO, provided it was approved by a majority vote of Palestinians in a referendum or by an elected unity government.

Since we were only observers, and not negotiators, we relayed this information to the Egyptians, and they pursued the cease-fire proposal. After about a month, the Egyptians and Hamas informed us that all military action by both sides and all rocket firing would stop on June 19, for a period of six months, and that humanitarian supplies would be restored to the normal level that had existed before Israel's withdrawal in 2005 (about 700 trucks daily).

We were unable to confirm this in Jerusalem because of Israel's unwillingness to admit to any negotiations with Hamas, but rocket firing was soon stopped and there was an increase in supplies of food, water, medicine and fuel. Yet the increase was to an average of about 20 percent of normal levels. And this fragile truce was partially broken on Nov. 4, when Israel launched an attack in Gaza to destroy a defensive tunnel being dug by Hamas inside the wall that encloses Gaza.

On another visit to Syria in mid-December, I made an effort for the impending six-month deadline to be extended. It was clear that the preeminent issue was opening the crossings into Gaza. Representatives from the Carter Center visited Jerusalem, met with Israeli officials and asked if this was possible in exchange for a cessation of rocket fire. The Israeli government informally proposed that 15 percent of normal supplies might be possible if Hamas first stopped all rocket fire for 48 hours. This was unacceptable to Hamas, and hostilities erupted.

After 12 days of "combat," the Israeli Defense Forces reported that more than 1,000 targets were shelled or bombed. During that time, Israel rejected international efforts to obtain a cease-fire, with full support from Washington. Seventeen mosques, the American International School, many private homes and much of the basic infrastructure of the small but heavily populated area have been destroyed. This includes the systems that provide water, electricity and sanitation. Heavy civilian casualties are being reported by courageous medical volunteers from many nations, as the fortunate ones operate on the wounded by light from diesel-powered generators.

The hope is that when further hostilities are no longer productive, Israel, Hamas and the United States will accept another cease-fire, at which time the rockets will again stop and an adequate level of humanitarian supplies will be permitted to the surviving Palestinians, with the publicized agreement monitored by the international community. The next possible step: a permanent and comprehensive peace.

By Former President Jimmy Carter, at Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:03:00 PM
Interesting facts about that hostage thing. Like how Reagan {With help from Gates} extended their hold until his inauguration. morphing into Iran Contra etc. Gates dirty deeds go way back and goes to show Obama's lack in judgement in keeping him on.
Otherwise I agree with poorboy and I am coming to think that Obama will rise to the occasion and stop this madness. No one else will and Bush couldn't/wouldn't do it on his best day.
The sooner people think rationally and keep religion out of it things will move quicker to a best case resolution.

By norske, at Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:14:00 PM
Here is something about the dear Mr. Carter that you may not know:

The main reason why the Camp David Accords were concluded the way they were was that Anwar Sadat told Carter in confidence what he was willing and unwilling to concede on. Carter then takes this information to Begin and tells him exactly what Sadat was prepared and unprepated to give. Begin is then in a position to structure his proposals to take advantage of this inside information. So Carter uses as a credidenial the Camp David Accords as one (maybe the only) accomplishment of his presidency and it is built on deception and betrayal.

By big tent republican, at Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:24:00 PM
Tent: Nice allegory there about Carter and his supposed use of deception; if what you say is true, who is the worse person for their deception(s), Jimmy Carter for what you are alleging, or George W. Bush for his use of deception to sell Congress and the masses of US citizens for his preemptive invasion of Iraq? Once again, IF you are correct about the deception of Carter, how many innocent people died because of that deception? How many have died because of the deception of President Bush on Iraq? You want to attempt to taint the one thing that the right has to give Carter credit for doing during his administration, for what reason? Look, there is a lot of common ground between the left and the right on how ineffective Carter was as a President, so why the need to attempt to taint the accomplishment of the lasting peace accord between Israel and Egypt that Carter and only Carter was able to do? If President Obama in his first hundred days in office is able to negotiate some sort of peace accord between Israel and those living in Gaza (including Hamas), and he has to use some diplomatic deception to achieve that accord, what is wrong with that approach? In working to save lives, to stop the ravages of war, isn't a small amount of deception warranted?

By Downtown Bob, at Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:16:00 PM
So then you no longer believe that deception on the part of the Bush Administration (hypotheitically accepting you premise that intelligence was manipulated to lead us to a war), so long as the intention was to end suffering and to stop the ravages of war perpetrated by Saddam Hussein, was a bad thing?!?! What an amazing reversal on your part, Bob. Your final statement was something I was not expecting to hear from you.

By big tent republican, at Friday, January 09, 2009 12:56:00 PM
Hamas is on the run. So is Hezbullah.
At last Israel will rid the world of the fanatic islomo-terrorist groups.
Israel has the support of the worls and out new President will support Israel all the way.

Stop Islamo-terrorism now.

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 09, 2009 3:24:00 PM
U.S. seeks to ship hundreds of tons of arms to Israel

By Reuters

Tags: hamas, gaza, israel

The United States is seeking to hire a merchant ship to deliver hundreds of tons of arms to Israel from Greece later this month, tender documents seen by Reuters show.

The U.S. Navy's Military Sealift Command said the ship was to carry 325 standard 20-foot containers of what is listed as "ammunition" on two separate journeys from the Greek port of Astakos to the Israeli port of Ashdod in mid-to-late January.

A "hazardous material" designation on the manifest mentions explosive substances and detonators, but no other details were given.
Advertisement
"Shipping 3,000-odd tons of ammunition in one go is a lot," one broker said, on condition of anonymity (read more)...

By Marilyn, at Friday, January 09, 2009 8:53:00 PM
UN human rights chief accuses Israel of war crimes

Official calls for investigation into Zeitoun shelling that killed up to 30 in one house as Israelis dismiss 'unworkable' ceasefire

Rory McCarthy in Jerusalem
The Guardian,
Saturday 10 January 2009

The United Nations' most senior human rights official said last night that the Israeli military may have committed war crimes in Gaza. The warning came as Israeli troops pressed on with the deadly offensive in defiance of a UN security council resolution calling for a ceasefire.

Navi Pillay, the UN high commissioner for human rights, has called for "credible, independent and transparent" investigations into possible violations of humanitarian law, and singled out an incident this week in Zeitoun, south-east of Gaza City, where up to 30 Palestinians in one house were killed by Israeli shelling.

Pillay, a former international criminal court judge from South Africa, told the BBC the incident "appears to have all the elements of war crimes".

The accusation came as Israel kept up its two-week-old air and ground offensive in Gaza and dismissed as "unworkable" the UN security council resolution which had called for "an immediate, durable and fully respected ceasefire".

Protests against the offensive were held across the world yesterday just as diplomacy to halt the conflict appeared to falter. (read more)...

By Marilyn, at Friday, January 09, 2009 9:01:00 PM
Tent: You are a complete moron, period. Your assertion was that Jimmy Carter deceived Sadat into a peace agreement with Begin because he told him (Begin) what Sadat would or would not accept, correct? My assertion was that if your assertion was correct, what real harm was done? I then compared how innocuous that supposed deception would be when compared to the mass deception and fraud that the Bush Administration used to "sell" Congress and the American people on the idea of invading Iraq. From that deception we have the results of over 4000 dead, over 40,000 wounded, and an unknown number of American service members who served that may very well be facing some mild to severe mental issues based on what they faced during their tour of duty, not to mention the possibility of well over a hundred thousand dead Iraqis, untold numbers of wounded Iraqis, the thousand upon thousands whose way of life have been recklessly destroyed, and somehow you think I believe that what President Bush did was "just"? If you think that for any portion of a second, you are a complete idiot, period.
Politics is the art of negotiation, compromise, and reaching an agreement with someone you disagree with on some fundamental level. War, or acts of war, especially war crimes, are, IMO, the utter failure of the political process. Just as our invading Iraq was a failure of politics, so is the war being waged in Gaza. I have every confidence that when he is sworn in on January 20, President Obama will move to a political solution in Gaza, through the use of diplomacy and negotiation, not by further fanning the flames of war.

By Downtown Bob, at Friday, January 09, 2009 11:03:00 PM
Hamas puts civilians at risk, the evidence is here:

"This map, confiscated Wednesday (Jan. 7) by IDF paratroopers operating in the north of Gaza, shows how Hamas uses an entire neighborhood, rigging it with explosive devices and putting the entire civilian population at great risk."

http://idfspokesperson.com/

By Anonymous, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:28:00 AM
Let's be honest here, this isn't about what Israel has done to Palestinians, it's about hating Jews, plain and simple. Hamas and other anti-Israel groups have claimed for years that wiping out all Jews and the state of Israel is the only solution. It's the final solution--sound familiar? When was the last time you heard any Jewish leader ask for the extermination of an entire people? Jews pray for peace as an integral part of the faith and culture.

Anti-semitism is a problem for Hamas supporters--even here in the U.S.. The following story about a rally in Florida is, sadly, not unusual. Oddly enough, it's OK to be anti-Semitic simply but it's not OK for Israel to defend herself.

"Lopez, a state coordinator for ANSWER, admitted there is a problem with anti-Semitism within his organization's ranks. But then he went on to call the supporters of Israel across the street "barbaric, racist" Zionist terrorists."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,477450,00.html

Like Hitler, Hamas is only starting with the Jewish state and her people, all other faiths and non-radical Muslims are also on their list.

By Peace in the Middle East, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:37:00 AM
Oh my gosh! Can you even imagine breaking a UN resolution?

Now Marilyn, please tell me which UN resolution allows Hamas to fire up to 3000 rockets a year into Israeli towns, and would that also be the same resolution calling for more suicide bombers to terrorize Israeli women and children?

The UN is a completly ineffective group of idiots. Great idea, crappy execution. The UN is done as a force for good because the Muslims never listen nor obey the UN. So be it.

The US did what it had to in Iraq...to settle those islamo-terrorist back a few notches. Now Israel will teach those terrorists from Hamas and Hezbullah a thing or two.

We ended Facism from the Germans and we will end terrorism from the muslims. It has to be done, it will be done.

By people of the world, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 6:06:00 AM
Since I posted the link to the article on the merchant ship that is to deliver munitions to Israel by the United States, the original article was removed, rewritten and placed under the same link. So, if you read it today, it reads differently from if you linked to it yesterday. I will be pasting the original article at the end of this post.

There has been another development. Israel is asking the US for more arms again and for an air "corridor" to attack Iran. The US has been deying that request, but the pressure is on. This is again from the Israeli paper, Haaretz: Israel asks U.S. for arms, air corridor to attack Iran
By Amos Harel and Aluf Benn, Haaretz Correspondents

This is the original article on the ammo shipment:

Haaretz

Last update - 03:50 10/01/2009

U.S. seeks to ship hundreds of tons of arms to Israel

By Reuters

Tags: hamas, gaza, israel

The United States is seeking to hire a merchant ship to deliver hundreds of tons of arms to Israel from Greece later this month, tender documents seen by Reuters show.

The U.S. Navy's Military Sealift Command said the ship was to carry 325 standard 20-foot containers of what is listed as "ammunition" on two separate journeys from the Greek port of Astakos to the Israeli port of Ashdod in mid-to-late January.

A "hazardous material" designation on the manifest mentions explosive substances and detonators, but no other details were given.
Advertisement

"Shipping 3,000-odd tons of ammunition in one go is a lot," one broker said, on condition of anonymity.

"This (kind of request) is pretty rare and we haven't seen much of it quoted in the market over the years," he added.

The U.S. Defense Department, contacted by Reuters on Friday in Washington, had no immediate comment.

The MSC transports armor and military supplies for the U.S. armed forces aboard its own fleet, but regularly hires merchant ships if logistics so require.

The request for the ship was made on Dec. 31, with the first leg of the charter to arrive no later than January 25 and the second at the end of the month.

The tender for the vessel follows the hiring of a commercial ship to carry a much larger consignment of ordnance in December from the United States to Israel ahead of air strikes in the Gaza Strip.

A German shipping firm which won that tender confirmed the order when contacted by Reuters but declined to comment further.

Shipping brokers: Charters are 'rare'
Shipping brokers in London who have specialized in moving arms for the British and U.S. military in the past said such ship charters to Israel were rare.

Israel is one of America's closest allies and both nations regularly sell arms to each other.

A senior military analyst in London who declined to be named said that, because of the timing, the shipments could be "irregular" and linked to the Gaza offensive.

The ship hired by the MSC in December was for a much larger cargo of arms, tender documents showed.

That stipulated a ship to be chartered for 42 days capable of carrying 989 standard 20-foot containers from Sunny Point, North Carolina to Ashdod.

The tender document said the vessel had to be capable of "carrying 5.8 million pounds (2.6 million kg) of net explosive weight", which specialist brokers said was a very large quantity.

The ship was requested early last month to load on December 15.

In September, the U.S. Congress approved the sale of 1,000 bunker-buster missiles to Israel. The GPS-guided GBU-39 is said to be one of the most accurate bombs in the world.

By Marilyn, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:07:00 AM
Related to the issue of arms sales and despite US reservations that Israel may want to attack Iran before the end of Bush's term, another arms sale was approved yesterday at the Pentagon, this time to the Israeli Air Force. It includes bombs for "heavily fortified" targets.

By Marilyn, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:12:00 AM
The Israeli jornalist, Gideon Levy, wrote a piece for Haaretz on the hypocrisy of wars against civilians, exposing the racist motives behind the assault on Gaza and its people. His piece reminded me of the movie of "Apocalypse Now," where the executioner arrives with an axe with one hand and a band aid with the other.

The men and women of peace in the world, including Jews and Arabs, are horrified at the double standard of Israeli aggression where any and all casualties and means are excused when targeting civilians. Gideon calls the blatant support for this offensive, the voice of the righteous and the hypocritical which believes that the only "purity" in the Gaza war is purification against terrorists, where the conscience of the killers can come out clean.

By Marilyn, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:50:00 AM
This is a working link to the Gideon Levy article: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054158.html

By Marilyn, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:19:00 AM
Hamas is finished.

The best course of action for the palestinian people is for Hamas to lay down their weapons.

The palestinians didn't want the cease-fire to end. The israeli people didn't want the cease-fire to end. If Hamas wants peace, they need to seek an legitimate, verifiable, and lasting cease-fire and recognize Israelis right to exist. Otherwise, Hamas and the palestinians will continue to die in Hamas' self-destructive and quixotic war with the sovereign state of Israel.

Marilyn can post link after link on this topic, but the fact remains she is on the wrong side of this issue so long as she denies Hamas' culpability for the violence and bloodshed in Gaza.

By big tent republican, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:06:00 PM
Holocaust Denied; The Lying Silence of Those who Know

by John Pilger.

Writing in the New Statesman, John Pilger calls on 40 years of reporting the Middle East to describe the 'why' of Israel's bloody onslaught on the besieged people of Gaza - an attack that has little to do with Hamas or Israel's right to exist.

“When the truth is replaced by silence,” the Soviet dissident Yevgeny Yevtushenko said, “the silence is a lie.” It may appear the silence is broken on Gaza. The cocoons of murdered children, wrapped in green, together with boxes containing their dismembered parents and the cries of grief and rage of everyone in that death camp by the sea, can be viewed on al-Jazeera and YouTube, even glimpsed on the BBC. But Russia’s incorrigible poet was not referring to the ephemeral we call news; he was asking why those who knew the why never spoke it and so denied it. Among the Anglo-American intelligentsia, this is especially striking. It is they who hold the keys to the great storehouses of knowledge: the historiographies and archives that lead us to the why.

They know that the horror now raining on Gaza has little to do with Hamas or, absurdly, “Israel’s right to exist”. They know the opposite to be true: that Palestine’s right to exist was cancelled 61 years ago and the expulsion and, if necessary, extinction of the indigenous people was planned and executed by the founders of Israel. They know, for example, that the infamous “Plan D” resulted in the murderous de-population of 369 Palestinian towns and villages by the Haganah (Jewish army) and that massacre upon massacre of Palestinian civilians in such places as Deir Yassin, al-Dawayima, Eilaboun, Jish, Ramle and Lydda are referred to in official records as “ethnic cleansing” (read more)...

By Marilyn, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:29:00 PM
Are you guys watching the protests around the world and in Washington, D.C., or are you still watching Fox News?

Go to Aljazeera TV and Link TV and see what people of conscience around the world are doing while some of y'all are cheering the deaths of innocents on this blog and on "Hometown" Radio.

It is free. All you have to do is have a conscience and use your finger to push a couple of buttons.

By Marilyn, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:34:00 PM
"exposing the racist motives behind the assault on Gaza and its people"

Racist motives? Can a nation of free, democratic and peace loving people like Israel be racist against 3000 rockets fired on women and children every year?

You bet your sweet bippie!

Hamas is going down, Hezbullah is next then onto Iran and Syria.

May God bless the nation of Israel for having the guts and courage to stand up agaist these Islamo-facists. We also thank Presdient elect Obama for supporting our friends the Jews in this war against terrorism from Hamas.

Pray for peace through victory for Israel.

By God's people, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:34:00 PM
Dave,

I am reposting an article by John Pilger which summarizes accurately the background to the conflict and the lies perpetrated over time against Palestinian people. It also addresses one point which a number of your callers erroneously kept insisting on and that was that the 1967 War was initiated by Egypt, which is of course, false.

I studied Middle Eastern history and was in the Middle East in 1967. So, I think I have some knowledge. Also, I would like to refer your readers and listeners to 2 books used in the Cal State System on war and the Middle East. Both address the 1967 War:

1- "Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict" by Charles Smith,

and

2- "Just and Unjust Wars" by Michael Walzer.

If your listeners would link to any reputable news source outside the United States, they can find numerous examples of the rising mass of protests over Gaza and the slaughter of Palestinian people, events not accurately portrayed by the mainstream media here.

You put people on your show with very superficial knowledge of the Middle East and whose views are motivated by bigotry and lack of concern for the plight of non-Western and non-Judeo-Christian peoples. It would be nice to allow accurate and easily verifiable rebuttal to their arguments, which I am providing here. The rest is up to them and they can go to the information provided to check for themselves. I am not interested in listening to personal attacks or taunting about Hamas and Hizbollah. Those kinds of childish outbursts are in the arsenal of those who cannot back up their claims.

What I think is important is the plight of civilians in war and, this time, the Palestinian people have paid dearly for the arrogance of power. How long will Palestinians have to pay for the arrogance and racism of the Zionists, the apathy and debauchery of Arab leadership, the ineptness of their leaderrship, and the ignorance and bigotry of people here? Not their fault and THAT is the issue. Even if they supposedly had a hand in it, that kind of slaughter is inexcusable. As a society that was built of humanistic and moral principles, we have to be able to grasp that view.

I would urge you to let through the Pilger article which is linked to below. Pilger and other journalists and scholars from the Middle East and Israel have a different and more conciliatory version to offer.

I don't read much of war supporters' posts well any more because they are rants without substance and all they do is encourage war and violence. Nothing positive to offer, especially where the Palestinians and other Arabs are concerned.

Time to give the REAL peacemakers on all sides a chance.

Thank you.

Holocaust denied: the lying silence of those who know
8 Jan 2009 Writing in the New Statesman, John Pilger calls on 40 years of reporting the Middle East to describe the 'why' of Israel's bloody onslaught on the besieged people of Gaza - an attack that has little to do with Hamas or Israel's right to exist.

“When the truth is replaced by silence,” the Soviet dissident Yevgeny Yevtushenko said, “the silence is a lie.” It may appear the silence is broken on Gaza. The cocoons of murdered children, wrapped in green, together with boxes containing their dismembered parents and the cries of grief and rage of everyone in that death camp by the sea, can be viewed on al-Jazeera and YouTube, even glimpsed on the BBC. But Russia’s incorrigible poet was not referring to the ephemeral we call news; he was asking why those who knew the why never spoke it and so denied it. Among the Anglo-American intelligentsia, this is especially striking. It is they who hold the keys to the great storehouses of knowledge: the historiographies and archives that lead us to the why.

They know that the horror now raining on Gaza has little to do with Hamas or, absurdly, “Israel’s right to exist”. They know the opposite to be true: that Palestine’s right to exist was cancelled 61 years ago and the expulsion and, if necessary, extinction of the indigenous people was planned and executed by the founders of Israel. They know, for example, that the infamous “Plan D” resulted in the murderous de-population of 369 Palestinian towns and villages by the Haganah (Jewish army) and that massacre upon massacre of Palestinian civilians in such places as Deir Yassin, al-Dawayima, Eilaboun, Jish, Ramle and Lydda are referred to in official records as “ethnic cleansing” (read more)….

By Marilyn, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:17:00 PM
Pray for peace by killing our enemies oh great God in the sky. Makes perfect sense.
While in the real world hopefully our president {And of course I mean Obama sense Bush unfortunately had the parents he did which contributed to his sociopathy" and our congress will take the moral high ground ala Eisenhower and say enough is enough and force Israel to go to the table.

By norske, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 5:29:00 PM
Dave,

From the Wall Street Journal of 10 Jan 09:

"Muslims Against Hamas --
Israel isn't the only side to blame."

"The Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip has sparked a predictable wave of protest throughout the Muslim world. (Somebody please call us the day a similar protest is held against al Qaeda's mass murder of Muslims in Iraq or Pakistan.) But theirs aren't the only voices making themselves heard on the subject of Gaza.

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported this week that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak had told a visiting delegation of European foreign ministers that Hamas "must not be allowed to emerge from the fighting with the upper hand." The comment was later relayed by the Europeans to Israeli foreign minister Tzipi Livni.

We called the Egyptian embassy in Washington to confirm Mr. Mubarak's comments and never heard back. But the remark squares with the way Egypt has acted toward Hamas since the war began. It has sealed its border with the Strip to prevent an exodus of Gazans and barred all but a trickle of humanitarian aid to enter. Little wonder that Hezbollah's Hassan Nasrallah has called on Egyptian army officers to topple Mr. Mubarak's regime.

Mr. Mubarak has good reason to want to see Hamas humbled: As the Palestinian franchise of his own suppressed Muslim Brotherhood, it poses a direct threat to his rule. The same goes for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Sunni regimes like Saudi Arabia, which see Hamas as another Iranian proxy in the Sunni heartland. Their views, too, are being expressed sotto voce.

More impressively, an Iranian student group is pointing the finger at its own government. "Those who have armed and encouraged groups like Hamas . . . have innocent blood on their hands," read a communiqué published December 30 in an Iranian newspaper and translated by the invaluable Middle East Media Research Institute. "Israel's current crimes in Gaza are strongly to be condemned -- but it is equally [important] to condemn the terror organizations that use kindergartens and hospitals as a shield against [Israeli] attacks."

The Iranian government shut down the newspaper that published these remarks the next day. We can only hope for the safety of the authors. They have shown a great deal more clarity, and courage, than the protestors on the other side."

Apparently an Iranian student group can figure out what Hamas is doing, but the world press can't.

Amazing.

The beat, as they say, goes on.

Regards,

Nick

By Nick Doyle, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:52:00 PM
Obama and the rest of the civilized world will support Israel in their finally putting an end to the rockets and suicide bombers of the islamo-terrorists.

The world knows it's time to put an end to the muslim hate and violence and terror.

Israel and the world will come to the table when Hamas is destroyed along with Hezbullah.

It will not end until Iran is on it's terrorist knees begging for Israel to stop. Then it will be over, at last.

The Jews are God's chosen people and He will protect them till His son returns. Poopoo that all you want. You have that free will. Just choose wisely. You only get one chance.

By God's people, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:36:00 PM
The Jewish people are useful to Christians until they cease to serve a purpose ie: greasing the skids towards the mythical armageddon. As usual, religion continues to be used to control the controllable, exploit the exploitable, justify the unjustifyable, and give power to those who have no ethics, scruples or morals. From the time when Thor was used to explain thunder, to the genocides of the past and the massacre of the present, religion has been perverted and used in excusing otherwise decent people to do the inexcusable. Schadenfreude. Peace for all, now.

By norske, at Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:06:00 PM
The real history & truth:

The unspoken truth about the fighting in Gaza, which began on December 19 2008 when Hamas rockets broke a voluntary truce, is that this is the frontline of a much larger war. This war began thirty years ago with the Islamic Revolution in Iran and is now global in scope. Its agenda is the extermination of the Jews and the destruction of the West.

The Islamic terrorist organization Hamas makes no secret of this agenda. Its Egyptian founders and Palestinian inspirers were active followers of Adolf Hitler and enthusiasts of the Nazi Holocaust. The founding charter of Hamas, which promises that “Islam will obliterate Israel” memorializes the Egyptian admirer of Hitler, Hassan al-Banna as “the martyr…of blessed memory.” The same document contains the genocidal incitement of the Prophet Mohammed to “kill the Jews,” to hunt them down “until they hide behind the rocks and the trees, and the rocks and trees cry out ‘O Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.’”

In 2006 these Islamic Nazis took possession of the Gaza strip, which is unoccupied except by Hamas and is Jew-less (because the Palestinians would kill any Jews that moved in their state). Hamas has turned Gaza into a terrorist fortress, launching rockets into Israeli schoolyards and hospitals and townships, and launching them from Palestinian schoolyards and hospitals and townships to ensure that the maximum number of civilians – both Jews and Muslims – would die for their cause. They will win the Armageddon they are planning, they boast, because “the Jews love life and we love death.”

And all around the world, and across Europe and throughout the United States, Muslim and secular radicals are rallying to this Nazi cause, supporting Hamas and attacking Israel and the Jews. The unholy alliance formed by Muslim fanatics and socialist radicals is the face of the terrorist future in the West. It is a coalition for whom no party is so evil that it does not deserve aid and comfort if its enemies are Israel and the United States, and if it is willing to attack them.

The wars in the Middle East are the frontline of the Islamic Nazi offensive -- a sixty-year aggression of Muslim Arabs against the Jews, rationalized at each turn by epic lies that resonate with radicals in the West: that the Arab aggressors are the victims; that the Jews stole Arab land (Israel in fact was created out of the ruins of the Turkish empire); that there is a Palestinian entity that wants peace with the state of Israel (there is none – there is not a single Palestinian leader who supports the existence of Jewish state).

The Palestinians are the only people in history to support in their majority a national death cult, to worship the murderers of little children (including their own) and to proclaim them saints and “martyrs.” The father of Palestinian Nationalism, Haj Amin al-Husseini, was an acolyte and ally of Hitler who preached the extermination of the Jews and planned to construct his own death camps for Jews in the Middle East. The miseries Palestinians have suffered are self-inflicted, the inevitable consequence of staking their national ambitions on the genocide of another people, while embracing a death cult for themselves.

Their allies in the West are either stupendously ignorant or morally blind. Here is the self-revealing declaration of the Associate Director of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Wisconsin (both an ignoramus and a moral defective): “The state terror unleashed from the skies and on the ground against the Gaza Strip as we speak has nothing to do with Hamas. It has nothing to do with ‘Terror.’ It has nothing to do with the long-term ‘security’ of the Jewish State…” What it has to do with is the evil Jews and their evil American supporters: “Strip away the clichés and the vacuous newspeak blaring out across the servile media and its pathetic corps of voluntary state servants in the Western world and what you will find is the naked desire for hegemony; for power over the weak and dominion over the world’s wealth. Worse yet you will find that the selfishness, the hatred and indifference, the racism and bigotry, the egotism and hedonism … the callousness with which we indulge in them all are endemic to our very culture; thriving here like flies on a corpse.”

The author of this repulsive, traitorous statement, Wisconsin Professor Jennifer Lowenstein, is herself a Jew, but obviously a self-hating member of the tribe, with a sordid lineage going back to the “capos” who shoveled their companions into the ovens and collaborated with their murderers. Like many of her political comrades in the secular and religious left she has joined the forces of Islamic barbarism that are ranged against the civilized people of America and Israel. And she is only one of many. In the midst of the global war that radical Islam has declared on the West, the conflict in Gaza has revealed the presence of a fifth column in the West so detached from its own communities and civilized values that it now constitutes a clear and present danger to our survival.

By Historian, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 8:17:00 AM
I agree with Norske about religion, and I would take that argument a step further. ANY totalitarian belief will find it easy to excuse the murder of others. Religions and ideologies are developed by people and it is the sickness in people that changes those ideologies into totalitarian and intolerant ones. All religions and political ideologies became totalitarian at one point in history. All have occupied, slaughtered, enslaved, and controlled in the name of some higher power, whether that power is God, Justice, Purity, Freedom, Morality, or Security.

The age of the 20th century ideologies is waning: Communism, Socialism, and Capitalism, are probably waning. They were the impetus for that century in a post-colonial and industrial era where a new producer/consumer class was created and where the colonial powers dismantled their regions (theoretically because then came the Cold War). The Western Industrial Age promised economic prosperity, with a price, servitude.

The 21st century landscape is different. All the above “isms” have failed their populations (but they served the psychopaths) because the underlying problems remain the same: greed, psychopathy, intolerance, and control. As emerging nations became disenchanted with the new economic and nationalistic promises that did not materialize, they turned to an ever-higher one, Religion.

Religious fervor is on the rise world-wide, especially in the Muslim and Christian worlds. It is easily noticeable in the Muslim world because the conflicts are raging on their soil at this point in time. Religion and intolerance are a tight thread that is woven into the fabric of American society. The trick is, you do not notice it if you deal with it superficially. The same is true of Jewish intolerance, which ironically has morphed into an atheist political ideology called Zionism (different from religious Zionism). The adherents to such ideology can come from all religious backgrounds. They are Jewish, Christian, and Atheist. The ideology is built on the concept of one homeland for all Jews as a birth right to the exclusion and to the displacement of others. It gets tricky here as this particular secular ideology was able to combine secular and religious components to achieve its ends: it evolved from the Atheist Communists and totalitarian activism of the Russian WWI era to advocate for a “right of return” for all people of Jewish background whether they believed in that religion or not. That was accelerated after the WWII Nazi Holocaust. Since that ideology fits perfectly well with the Armageddon cheering crowd, that crowd took up the Zionist cause in the Middle East and they are fuelling the conflict in the “holy land” to hasten their Armageddon.

The totalitarian ideologies currently operating in the world are rooted in the following: Islam, Christianity, Political Zionism (not Judaism), Corporatism, the Military-Industrial Complex, and Globalism.

Tarek Ali and others were correct. There is a clash of civilizations taking place and it is a result of the failure of the post-colonial movements, the brutality of the Cold War on the citizens of the world, the erasing of individualism, and the abuse of faith and religion in the service of the few corporatist psychopaths who use religion as the fuel to keep us all busy fighting each other. In that area, I agree with Norske as well.

I can assure you that the arms industry and their contractors are some of the "lucky" few who are raking it in during this global recession that will only get worse for the average person.

The adherents of any religion or ideology who encourage or commit wholesale slaughter while financially benefiting from that slaughter under the guise of “security” and “chosen people” and whatever myth of the day, need to kindly step out of the human arena.

By Marilyn, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:39:00 AM
On a lighter note. Not that I'd ever condone rocket attacks on Israel, but what kind of rockets are they firing? Bottle rockets? Wrist rockets? Hell, I could do more damage firing model Estes rockets! Props to Israel for keeping suicide bombers out of their hair. The blockade works. Like it or not. Where are those coward suicide bombers now? Some of you Israel haters have such short memories. I guess strapping explosives to your innocent children and blowing up other innocent children is heroic to some, but how can some of you not condemn that?!? And for the rest of you Israel bashers, especially those born in the Middle East, if your hatred for the "Zionists" is so fierce, why not go back to your homeland and use the education this great country has given you to help your suffering brothers and sisters? I'll tell you why. Its easier to blog about it and accomplish absolutely nothing than go over there and make a real difference....Are you a doctor? Go! A nurse? Go! An engineer? A scientist? GO! You are not helping your people by posting your "deep thoughts" on Dave's blog! What are you people smoking?

By xmechagodzillax, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:48:00 AM
Truth is where you want to find it. After Hamas was freely and legally elected {Why do you think they voted in Hamas?} Israel pushed until they reaped the predicable and expected rocket attacks. This is nothing new as the U.S. had perfected this technique for years. Which tactic is the more serious precursor to war, a blockade and occupation which strangles an area and engenders a known response, or the launching of rockets?
Perhaps it is time to stop the blaming and get to the solving.
Where is the press in describing the 10,000 Israeli's protesting what Israel is doing? Where is the press in describing the thousands of Israeli extremists who push for the annihilation of all Arab peoples?
Where is the press at all? Oh, that's right, following the US again in keeping the press away from the action and reporting the truth.
More than 800 Palestinians killed, 10 Israeli soldiers killed, most by friendly fire. By any definition this is genocide.
Obama has the opportunity to become a great leader and do the right thing, or lie with the dogs as congress has done.

By norske, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 10:48:00 AM
"The adherents of any religion or ideology who encourage or commit wholesale slaughter while financially benefiting from that slaughter under the guise of “security” and “chosen people” and whatever myth of the day, need to kindly step out of the human arena."

I agree that all Muslims must convert or be killed.

Never thought I would agree with marilyn. Maybe things are changing.

Just for a moment, a brief moment think of the world today without muslims. Ahhhhh...to dream of a world at peace. Women free to live and learn, Children safe and not used as sheilds. Gays free to express their sexuality and not be beheaded. All religeons free to worship their god with fear of being attacked by Islam...

We all must support Isreal to that end.

By I have a dream!, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:50:00 AM
I happen to be pro Israel but am more pro peace. To continue to frame those opposing Israels actions as anti Israel or hate Israel types is to be dishonest and lazy. Your case must be weak to have to include such stupid labels. Both sides have made mistakes and I think that Obama will end this soon. Congress should have ended it but they are as weak as usual.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:06:00 PM
To Godzilla,

Don't flatter yourself or the educational system in the United States. I was already in graduate school when I came to the United States from Lebanon, so Please do not high and mighty me. If you are ignorant of the facts, stay away from the discussion. There are more college educated people in Lebanon per 100,000 than there are in the United States and there are so many of them they are too qualified to work in most jobs in the country, which by the way are being outsourced to American and foreign coroporations.

Hey if Erik Prinz, Halliburton and Blackwater can make money in the Middle East, why can't Middle Eastern people make money here? That is the price of globalization. At least I am an American citizen and I live and pay taxes here. This is where I do all of my volunteer work and I do not believe in using poor people to get rich and I also do not believe in cheering the death of innocent people for a perverted ideology that is racist at its core.

My people are in the United States now. How arrogant of you to assume that people born in the Middle East are somehow outside the citizenship of this country. You guys are cheering the slaughter in the Middle East and a Zionist ideology that has absolutely no value and is detrimental in the moral or human or American sense. I earned the right to be a citizen of this country precisely because I was educated and fluent in English before I came here and it was not a decision I made lightly. Your rants about our allegiances are getting stale.

As far as commenting on this blog goes, what is it to you? I repeat: WHAT is it to you? Blogs are set up specifically for discussion and personal and other opinions. If you want a more controlled blog where only certain people get to post certain views, go set up your own or leave this blog.

Maybe Fluffy the Dog would be a better topic of discussion for you?

By Marilyn, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:44:00 PM
Slam America all you want people. My parents were in the USA for 3 months before I was born. They were Armenians living in Tehran before they became extremely lucky and got the hell out of that...you know what hole. I feel like I won the biggest lottery on earth! I remember my grandfather coming here in 1977. I was 7 years old at that time. When he exited the plane and before he walked over to my mother, father, brother, grandmother and I, I thought he had fallen on the ground and was hurt because he was crying....he was actually kissing American soil and those tears were tears of joy...I remember that day like it was yesterday and I'll never forget it, ever. This country is great for many reasons. For me the main reason is because its a country of every race and every religion. This country has done and accomplished more than any civilization in history for that very reason. When other countries need help for anything who do you think comes to the rescue? We do! The Arabs with all their money, crapping on their solid gold toilets in their palaces, won't even help their own people let alone anyone in the world. Do you really think the multi-billionaire Arabs in the Middle East give a crap about their own downtrodden Muslim brothers and sisters?

By xmechagodzillax, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 2:11:00 PM
I am linking to a website Jewish Voice for Peace that has up-to-date information on the Jewish peace movement in the United States as well as internationally and in Israel. They work in collaboration with their Arab counterparts in Israel.

Also the blog Rabbi Brant Rosen's Blog is worth checking out.

Jon Stewart of the daily show did a segment on the discrepancy in reporting and behavior where the Gaza assault is concerned.

This is about the PR war that analysts are saying Israel is losing because of the conduct of its war on Gaza.

The reason I am posting so many is to show that there are alternative points of view out there that understand the reality and that are trying to bring peace and reconciliation by other means than war and slaughter.

By Marilyn, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 2:27:00 PM
Several left-wing Web sites have displayed a graphic video purporting to show Palestinians killed or wounded by a recent Israeli airstrike in Gaza.

In fact, the video shows the aftermath of an accidental explosion of a truck full of rockets at a Hamas rally nearly 3.5 years ago.

Does the truth matter to anyone but me? Will the radical left & their muslim buddies ever tell the truth? Seems doubtful.

By the left & Hamas lies again, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 2:44:00 PM
I am providing a link to a directory page for Israeli peace groups that are active in Israel right now. There are many more, but this is a beginning for people who would like to find out more.

I used to organize Women in Black in SLO from 2002-2005 and have listened to many representatives of those groups on video and in person when they came to SLO. Some of our local activists have also been to Palestine/Israel and worked with them. We also stay in touch via email. I would encourage those of you who are not familiar with them to check them out.

Those groups include Arab Israelis as well among their membership.

There is an alternative point of view in Israel/Palestine to the one we are seeing pushed here and within the current Israeli government. It would be helpful for the people concerned in the conflict if their efforts are encouraged and supported. They are the courageous ones because they work under considerable pressure much of the time and they see the suffering first-hand on both sides.

I would be happy to provide more information if people need it where those groups are concerned.

By Marilyn, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 4:10:00 PM
Uh, Marilyn, most of my family still lives in the Middle East. I lived in Isfahan the last 4 months of 1978. These are great countries with great people. I still have family in Syria...enough of that though. Sorry if I hit a nerve with you...jeez, lighten up! Now that I think about it, I can't blame you for wanting to come here....I bet 90% of the Mid East would! Capitalism baby! Unfortunately my Grand dad didn't speak English upon arriving here like you did. But how about just a little bit of respect for the good ol' USA? What difference does it make that there are more college educated persons per capita in Lebanon than America? I'd rather have a person who went to school in America operate on me than anyone educated in the Mid East, bottom line! I will say one thing, you are a very fortunate person and so am I....we're American citizens.

By xmechagodzillax, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:02:00 PM
This should be understood to most, but then again from the content of some of these posts maybe not..
It is a good thing to love ones country be it Norway, the US, Israel or Iraq. I happen to be partial to Norway but I also admire many things about the US.
But if you're an American, for example, does that mean that you blindly condone everything it does, right or wrong?
Many people, including myself, criticize America when it behaves criminally and contrary to the Constitution. We simply want America to become what many naive people seem to believe it is already, never getting past the pablum they were taught in grade school.
It goes the same for people blindly supporting and defending Israel, right or wrong. There are many good things about Israel but there are also many negative things as well. Heck, if I thought hard enough I could probably find something wrong with Norway.
To blindly accept any nations behavior without question is ignorance personified. And to not raise questions when ones nation is involved in criminal acts and acts against humanity makes one complicit is such acts.
As much as all of these cheer leading chicken hawks admire and pray for war and torture, you might want to actually experience death on a grand scale before spouting off from the comfort of your recliner.
Is an Arab child's death less awful than an Israeli or American? Unfortunately I know how some will answer that question.

By norske, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:26:00 PM
Excuse me? John Stewart is now being cited as a legitamate news source? Please please please tell me you are joking...tell me you are pulling our legs...

Please don't tell me that is the best Google could find that supported Hamas.

Marilyn please. Hamas and islamo-terroism is a lost cause. Hating a race of people so much that you dedicate all your resources to wiping them off the face of the earth may have worked in the 13th century but never now. The free world will NEVER put up with sending rockets into Israeli cities and then hiding in hospitals and schools to avoid realiation.

John Stewart hosts a comedy show for heavens sake. Please tell us that was joke, please.

By my jaw dropped, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 6:09:00 PM
What's wrong with Jon Stewart?Actually he does a pretty good job of skewering the media on any number of different topics. And he normally does it by letting the video clips speak for themselves.

He's also Jewish, so it's an interesting perspective on Gaza.

By Comedy Central Junkie, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 7:03:00 PM
Sad but true when you can find more relevant news on the Daily Show than on Fox News. No mention on the large number of Jews who desire the complete extinction of all things Arab, convenient. Keep cherry picking.

By Poorboy, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 7:41:00 PM
Actually, there is a national campaign to thank Jon Stewart for his stance. It is put forth by Jewish Voice for Peace and CAIR. Y'all are welcome to link to it and thank him yourselves. At least he is doing something to raise awareness for the positive.

Although Stewart is a comedy show host, his specialty is political satire. Political satire is a reflection of what is on the mind of the nation. He is really good. He is so good and popular, CNN, FOX, and NBC continuously reference his work where politics is concerned.

Political satirists are always the conscience of their nations and the world. Jon Stewart is no different especially when he put the hosts of Crossfire on CNN to shame for not doing their job.

He is also continuously referenced by the hero here, Bill O'Reilly, and O'Reilly vice versa on the Tonight Show.

Political satirists have been jailed in other countries for their political views. That is how important they are.

Enjoy him while you have him.

By Marilyn, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 7:49:00 PM
Good job Marilyn, I enjoy Stewart and Colbert and rarely miss a show. It is ironic that an interview given by John Stewart reveals far more information than when done by most MSM. People dismiss these shows as comedies and they are, but they are also incisive and on point.

By Poorboy, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:39:00 PM
Marilyn can post links all she wants. She can even quote Jon Stewart. Doesn't matter.

The basic equation has not changed: Hamas started this. Israel is going to finish it.

Hamas can stop their rockets any time they'd like.

Plain and simple.

By Rogue, at Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:39:00 PM
Before Irael attacked the Barbarian Islam0-facists in Gaza they were firing 80 rockets a day into Iraeal.
Today they fired less than 9 rockets. In a few months it will be down to zero.
Then peace talks can beging...after Hamas is destroyed.

You can't cry wolf when you are hiding behind your own civilians and firing rockets from schools and hospitals.

Thos Hanas arabs are animals! Irael will wipe them out. So be it. It's about time.

Ps: I really cracked up at the John Stweart thing. How desperate does one have to be quote John Stewart as a legit news source? How lonely does one need to be to watch that drivel?

By cracked up, at Monday, January 12, 2009 9:33:00 AM
In tried and true manner, Hamas is again using the media as its main weapon and willing dupes in the fight against Israel. For Hamas, its "soldiers" include the women, children and other innocents killed and wounded in Gaza. Those images make it so easy to feel sorry for the Palestinians and cry about Israel supposedly committing war crimes. Anyone who falls for this Hamas gambit must be ignorant of international law, or perhaps such voices actually want to see Hamas score a political victory.

Marilyn pointed out the main source of international law applicable in the present case in her entry of 6 January at 11:24 pm (Additional Protocol I of 1977 to the Geneva Convention of 1949). However, she failed to apply the law to the facts on the ground. War crimes have been committed repeatedly, but it is Hamas which is the perpetrator.

Art 51 (2) sentence 1: "The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack." This means that a party to a conflict cannot target civilians, but it does not mean that civilian casualties must necessarily be avoided. Which of the combatants is targeting "[t]he civilian population as such"? It is clearly not the Israelis. If they wanted to attack the civilian population, the death toll would be much higher and we would be looking at carpet bombing instead of the focused strikes we see on the news. Hamas, however, clearly targets civilians, as we saw repeatedly with the suicide bombings and as we also see with the rockets they shoot in the direction of Israel, not caring what they hit.

Art. 51 (2) sentence 2: "Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited." The Israeli strikes are directed against military objectives and have the "primary purpose" of eliminating the military objectives. What is a "military objective"? Art. 52 (2) sentence 2 of the Protocol states: "In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage." This is a very broad definition and clearly covers the smuggling tunnels, the Hamas mortar team which set up its position at the entrance to the UN school where 30-40 people were killed last week together with the members of the mortar team, the weapons stored in mosques, etc. Again, there has been no evidence whatsoever that the Israelis are targeting anything other than military objectives, although collateral damage is unavoidable. Hamas, on the other hand, has focused its attacks for years on "[spreading] terror among the civilian population" by sending suicide bombers into pizzerias and lobbing rockets in the general direction of towns in Israel.

Art. 51 (4): "Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited. Indiscriminate attacks are:
(a) those which are not directed at a specific military objective;
(b) those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective, or
(c) those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by this Protocol."
and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians without distinction."
The rocket attacks launched by Hamas obviously are prohibited under this language because those rockets by their nature cannot be targeted without distinction. The indiscriminate firing of mortars in the general direction of Israeli towns is also prohibited. The Israelis, on the other hand, are using all available means to distinguish between civilian objects and military objectives.

Art. 51 (5): "Among others, the following types of attacks are considered to be indiscriminate:
(a) an attack by bombardment by any method or means which treats as a single military objective a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects;
and
(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."

Specifically subclause (b) expresses the doctrine of proportionality under international law. Proportionality involves a relationship between two factors, namely between the military advantage, on the one hand, and the expected, "incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects", on the other hand. Subclause (b) does not prohibit collateral damage and instead only requires that the "expected" collateral damage from an attack, i.e. the knowingly caused collateral damage, is not excessive when compare to the anticipated military advantage intended with the attack.

All of you who have picked up the Palestinian refrain that the Israeli response is "disproportionate" are completely off point. Proportionality under international law has nothing to do with a calculation balancing a certain number of lives on one side against a certain number of lives on the other side. No country is required to accept a certain number of casualties or restrain itself because it is killing too many of the enemy. Would it be "proportionate" for the Israelis to have simply indiscriminately lobbed one rocket into Gaza for each rocket fired by Hamas? Ridiculous!

So far, there is not one instance where the Israelis have intentionally caused disproportionate civilian losses compared to the anticipated military advantage. Even in the case of the 30-40 people killed at the UN school last week, the fire was directed at a mortar team. There is no indication that the Israeli troops involved in the attack expected that they would kill such a large number of civilians or even knew that so many civilians were present so close to the target. The Hamas mortar team was in fact neutralized and at least two of the dead were known Hamas operatives.

The Israelis are known for taking all reasonable precautions´in order to avoid civilian losses, even at the risk of their own troops. Hamas, however, is well known for specifically directing attacks at civilians without even trying to hit a "military objective".

Art. 51 (7): The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks …"
Hamas has egregiously violated this rule by storing weapons in mosques and schools. It is well known that Hamas uses the Shifa Hospital in Gaza as a logistics point, and there are as yet unverified reports that the leadership of Hamas in Gaza is located in a bunker under the hospital. Despite Hamas having clearly violated this prohibition against hiding behind civilians, it is remarkable that there have actually been relatively few civilian casualties compared to the number of killed Hamas fighters. The current death toll is around 900, 400 of which have been confirmed to be Hamas operatives, and about half of the remaining 500 are believed to have been Hamas fighters, albeit in civilian clothing.

Let me also address the nature of Hamas:

Marilyn refers in her email of 6 Jan. at 11:24 to the "real truth behind the occupation". Of course, Gaza has not been occupied for around two years, but the term "occupation" is used especially by Hamas and its sympathizers to refer to the Jewish presence in the Middle East, i.e. to the very existence of Israel. In the eyes of Hamas, the "Zionist entity" will still be occupying Arab lands until every square inch is under Arab control, specifically under the control of a fundamentalist Islamic state.

Marilyn states in her email of 7 Jan. 12:06 am that she prefers a "one state" solution. Marilyn, do you really think that the Jews would have any chance of escaping genocide in a country governed by the likes of Hamas, Hezbollah or even Fatah? A "one state" solution means eliminating the country Israel and placing the Jews in that part of the world at the mercy of Hamas, etc. No one can reasonably expect the Israelis to march with open eyes to their own deaths. "Been there, done that!" And the Israelis learned long ago that they cannot rely on the West to prevent genocide. Ruanda, Darfur and Srebrenica are just recent examples of the West backing off from taking decisive action to prevent genocide in favor of expressing great moral indignation and condemnation after the fact.

Adolph Hitler announced his ambitions for all the world to hear when he wrote Mein Kampf. Hamas has clearly formulated its ambitions in its Charter.

Article 6 sentence 1: "The Islamic Resistance Movement [i.e. Hamas] is a distinct Palestinian movement that is loyal to Allah, adopts Islam as a way of life and works to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine."

Article 7 para. 3: "The Islamic Resistance Movement is one link in the chain of jihad in confronting the Zionist invasion. … The Prophet, Allah's prayer for peace be upon him, says: 'The hour of judgment shall not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, so that the Jews hide behind trees and stones, and each tree and stone will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him,' except for the Gharqad tree, for it is the tree of the Jews.' "

Article 8 ("The Motto of the Islamic Resistance Movement"): "Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model to be followed, the Koran its constitution, Jihad its way, and death for the sake of Allah its loftiest desire."

Article 13 sentence 1: "The initiatives, the so-called peace solutions, and the international conferences for resolving the Palestinian problem stand in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement, for to neglect any part of Palestine is to neglect part of the Islamic faith."

Article 13 last para. sentences 1, 2: "There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are a waste of time and a farce."

Article 15 para. 1 sentence 2: "In the face of the Jewish occupation of Palestine, it is necessary to raise the banner of jihad."

This is just a small sample of the bloodthirsty stupidity represented by the Hamas charter. The Charter would be laughable except for the fact that the members of Hamas are true believers and fully prepared to follow the Charter to the letter.

The Hamas ideology means that there is only one way for Gaza to have real peace. A cease fire which permits Hamas to survive will just postpone fighting to some future date when Hamas may well have bigger weapons. That was what happened under the previous cease fire. Instead, a genuine peace will only be possible if Hamas is totally defeated. Victory works!

Many of the contributors to this blog are obviously completely ignorant of what Hamas is and what its goals are. Perhaps that is why they think an unconditional cease fire will lead to peace and not just an opportunity for Hamas to reorganize and rearm for its Jihad against Israel. Those contributors should inform themselves about Hamas.

Any contributors who recognize the true nature of Hamas and still expect Israel to allow Hamas to have its way in Gaza and even expect the Israelis to eventually submit to Hamas and its ilk are apparently willing to accept, and may even desire a second Holocaust. To them one can only respond with the refarin: "Never Again!"

By Chris in Paso, at Monday, January 12, 2009 3:45:00 PM
"Ps: I really cracked up at the John Stweart thing. How desperate does one have to be quote John Stewart as a legit news source? How lonely does one need to be to watch that drivel?"

Not as lonely as one who hits the sauce at 9:30 in the morning. At least SOME of us are already halfway through our workday at that time.

Really, neither the "Hanas arabs" nor ""Irael" are going anywhere. So there must be a better solution besides killing.

By the way, contrary to what pundits are saying, "Irael" was the party that broke the ceasefire on November 4th after it infiltrated into Gaza and killed 6 "Hanas" members and then proceeded with an oppressive blockade. "Hanas" started their missile attacks after that date.

How is this for a better news source for you?

Peace.

By Marilyn, at Monday, January 12, 2009 5:39:00 PM
If there is a God, he, she, it, will allow Israel to be bombed into oblivion and destroy all of those Zionist devils.

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 12, 2009 5:44:00 PM
Cracked Up: Wow. Nice spell check job there; not. Iraeal = Israel ? Thos Hanas arabs are animals. = Those Hamas Arabs are animals? Dude, are you off your meds or something?
How desperate does one have to be quote John Stewart as a legit news source? How lonely does one need to be to watch that drivel? Well, CNN, Fox News (probably your only source of news type information, if any) and NBC all quote him occasionally; do you think that they are desperate? And as far as needing to be "lonely" to watch Jon Stewart; how "lonely" does one "need" to be to post comments without learning to spell or at least attempting to use a spell check? I didn't think that it is that hot in Arizona right now, so that can't be the excuse. FAIL.

By Downtown Bob, at Monday, January 12, 2009 11:57:00 PM
When Bob & Marilyn have lost an argument they do as all radical libs do...They begin the politics of personal destruction. We have now reached that point here, which proves that they have lost the battle of trying to smear the peaceful nation of Israel from defending itself against the barbaric islamo-facist terrorists of Islam and Hamas. That's good.

Israel continues to ferret the terrorist out of the neighborhoods, hospitals and school that those cowards use to hide their weapons and from which to attack our beloved friends in Israel.

There is no let up to the extent to which Israel to go to protect and defend it's nation and it's people. The attacks will continue until Hamas is destroyed and the peaceful Palestinians are given a chance to adopt a peaceful and legitimate government.

Hams, Hezbollah, Iran and Syria must all be brought to their knees and destroyed as the world will no longer tolerate their brand of hateful and barbaric terrorist attacks and ideology.

Islam must and will change or the consequences will be dire for them. Moderate and peaceful Islam may emerge or it may not. But as for the Islamo-Fascists their days are numbered.

Even President elect Obama understands that supporting Israel is the only way to lasting peace. Supporting Israel means the total destruction of rogue Islamo-terrorist governments and terror groups and the complete freedom and peace to all of our dear friends in the legitimate nation of Israel, and to all Islamic women, children and gays.

The time has come for Islam to convert or die.

PS: To "Chris in Paso"...Brilliant post. To the point and ALL true.

update: So far Marilyn has posted 26% of the posts on this thread.

By Historian, at Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:47:00 AM
No wonder there are still wars. The rhetoric on this blog is shameful as people try to justify the need to kill and maim. Fighting among ourselves. Is that really the best we can do? Does anyone here think any of this war of words will make one bit of difference, other than making things worse?

Is there hatred and violence in YOUR heart? Is there an overwhelming need within you to be right, to "win" every argument, to prove why your viewpoint is superior or more righteous?

The war is a symptom of the battle between love and hate, arrogance and humility, attachment and detachment, that resides in the hearts of people from every part of this world.

The war is within.

By Wise Guy, at Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:22:00 AM
War is a symptom of a bunch of nut cases launching 3000 rockets a year into your cities or flying planes full of innocent people into buildings. Shall I go on? (The list reaches 1800 terror attacks in the past 3 years)

Wake up wise guy...You wanna sing Kumbayya and cry in your beer go ahead. As for the rest of us, we WILL protect ourselves from the Islamo-fascists committed to killing off Israel and the western world.
Psssst...Coffees ready...smell it?

By The time has come-no more, at Tuesday, January 13, 2009 4:05:00 PM
Here is a quote from Golda Meir:

"We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us."

By Robin, at Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:04:00 PM
"Kumbaya" is powerful business. What exactly is wrong with calling out, through song, for God's grace to ease suffering and inspire joy and creativity?

"Kumbaya" is a prayer. If more people prayed for God's grace, the world would be a better place, if only because while sincerely engaged in such a prayer one's mind is elevated from the lower animal tendencies that man is apt to slide into.

As far as power and effectiveness, a simple recitation of "Kumbaya" beats the heck out of most blog entries.

But if you don't like the melody, create your own prayer.

Someone's blogging my Lord, kumbaya. Oh, Lord, kumbaya!

By Wise Guy, at Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:21:00 AM
Corporate media that backs the US and Israel in whatever they do control the message.
Both are at fault in this disaster but anyone would be hard pressed to blame one side more than the other. 10 years ago this type of story would have been better controlled, now with the Internet people are reporting abuses as they happen. People tend to hear what they want to hear and see what they want to see.

By norske, at Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:15:00 PM
Prayer is important for peace, but alone it becomes an exercise in elitism and disdain for the plight of the victims.

Prayer and activism (trying to correct injustice) have to go hand in hand. Such acts will involve negativity and confrontation because the criminals, by nature, are not amenable to reform in many cases. Where there is a victim, there is always a victimizer. Sometimes victimization goes both ways, but we cannot use that argument to continue excusing the slaughter when it happens. It is a cop out.

It is also disingenuous to belittle the plight of the victim while advocating for peace. That is why the Palestinian plight is important to many of us. Their murder seems to be taken as normal and, when exposed, is either met with, "we have to show both sides" or "it is their fault," like that idiotic statement above made by Golda Meir and which bigots keep repeating. How dare anyone think that Palestinians care less about their children than Israelis or any other people do. Does any person with two brain cells to their name think that is possible? It is similar to the lie that the Zionists perpetrated where they claimed that "there is no such thing as a Palestinian people" and "Palestine is a land without a people for a people without a land" right before they grabbed it "legally."

The perpetrator of the bigger injustice is the one who deliberately lies and commits violent acts to achieve control over helpless people. Helpless people retaliate sometimes, but their retaliation should never be condemned as equivalent to the actions of their oppressor. The violent actions of the victims are sometimes wrong and murderous, but it is never their fault completely as long as they continue to be terrorized through occupation and daily killings inflicted on them by their occupier without the avenue for justice.

When was the last time any Israeli attack on Palestinian civilians prosecuted by anyone? It is like blaming the rape victim when she kills her attacker in the process of the commission of the crime.

Yes, let us all pray for the victims of war, but let us not forget that the victims have been doing their own praying long before we even thought about them. Let us also remember that while we are praying for them, they still need to eat, sleep, be treated, and above all, live like decent human beings without having their homes bombed and children killed every two years because we do not want to “take sides” or “blame” anyone.

By Marilyn, at Wednesday, January 14, 2009 5:46:00 PM
"The perpetrator of the bigger injustice is the one who deliberately lies and commits violent acts to achieve control over helpless people."

Marilyn I agree 100%!

Hamas should have never fired those 10,000+ rockets onto the civilians in Israel.

We seem to be agreeing more and more these days. There maybe hope yet in stopping the barbarians of Hamas from killing more innocent women and children in Israel.

I will pray Israel wins and makes them stop.

By We agree!, at Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:27:00 PM
I'm not the first to say it: there's a spiritual solution for every problem.

As for prayer, a universal prayer is what is called for, shared equally for perpetrators and victims. When everyone appreciates that, lives that, the war will end.

By Wise Guy, at Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:42:00 PM
by Benjamin Netanyahu

Imagine a siren that gives you 30 seconds to find shelter before a Kassam rocket falls from the sky and explodes, spraying its lethal shrapnel in all directions. Now imagine this happens day after day, month after month, year after year.

If you can imagine that, you can begin to understand the terror to which hundreds of thousands of Israelis have been subjected. Three years ago Israel withdrew from every square inch of Gaza. And since that withdrawal, our civilians have been targeted by more than 6,000 rockets and mortars fired from Gaza. In the face of this relentless bombardment, Israel has acted with a restraint that other countries, faced with a similar threat, would find hard to fathom. Israel's government has finally decided to respond.

For this action to succeed, we must first have moral clarity. There is no moral equivalence between Israel, a democracy which seeks peace and targets the terrorists, and Hamas, an Iranian-backed terror organization that seeks Israel's destruction and targets the innocent.

In launching precision strikes against Hamas rocket launchers, headquarters, weapons depots, smuggling tunnels and training camps, Israel is trying to minimize civilian casualties. But Hamas deliberately attacks Israeli civilians and deliberately hides behind Palestinian civilians -- a double war crime. Responsible governments do their utmost to minimize civilian casualties, but they do not grant immunity to terrorists who use civilians as human shields.

The international community may occasionally condemn Hamas for putting Palestinian civilians in harm's way, but if it ultimately holds Israel responsible for the casualties that ensue, then Hamas and other terror organizations will employ this abominable tactic again and again.

The charge that Israel is using disproportionate force is equally baseless. Does proportionality demand that Israel fire 6,000 rockets indiscriminately back at Gaza? Does it demand an equal number of casualties on both sides? Using that logic, one would conclude that the United States employed disproportionate force against the Germans because 20 times as many Germans as Americans died in World War II.

In that same war, Britain responded to the firing of thousands of rockets on its population with the wholesale bombing of German cities. Israel's measured response to rocket fire on its cities has come in the form of surgical strikes. To further root out Hamas terrorists in a way that minimizes Palestinian civilian casualties, Israel's army is now engaged in a ground operation that places its soldiers in great peril. Carpet-bombing of Palestinian cities is not an option that any Israeli leader will entertain.

Only by defeating Hamas can we provide security for our people and hope for a future peace.

The goal of this mission should be clear: To end the current round of missile attacks and to remove the threat of such attacks in the future. The only cease-fire or diplomatic initiative that should be accepted is one that achieves this dual objective.

If our enemies assumed that the Israeli public would be divided on the eve of an election, they were wrong. When it comes to exercising our most basic right of self-defense, there is no opposition and no coalition. We stand united against Hamas because we know that only by defeating Hamas can we provide security for our people and hope for a future peace.

We fight to defend ourselves, but in so doing we are also fighting a fanatical ideology that seeks to reverse the course of history and throw the civilized world back into a new dark age. The struggle between militant Islam and modernity -- whether fought in Afghanistan, Iraq, India or Gaza -- will decide our common future. It is a battle we cannot afford to lose.

This article originally appeared in the Wall Street Journal

By slobob, at Wednesday, January 14, 2009 10:15:00 PM
Wise Guy:
Universal prayer is needed? OK...I'll go with that. But fill me in. Who or what do we universally pray to? And what is the desired effrect of such prayer?

87% of America prays to the God of the Bible and believe in Christ. In that great book we are told how to act and the way to salvation.

Instead of universal prayer to some "higher power" don't you think it would be best if we started with something simple? Like the 10 Commandments?

Anyway, please tell us who or what you pray to and what is your expectation.

By Jesus is the answer, at Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:50:00 AM
Wow, people fall for the BS hook, line and sinker. Other where, in the real world, where people are neither apologists and liars for Israel, or apologists and liars for the Palestinians facts are a whole other matter.
It wouldn't matter to me who broke the cease fire although I think that it is clear it was the Israelis. What is more of a terrorist, Hamas launching rockets into Israel, or Israel sending missiles and bombs including those with White Phosphorus? Have you seen up front and personal what destruction this causes? I have.
Should the Palestinians do what the Jews did and go passively to their deaths without reacting?
Israel responded to being attacked with rockets by attacking Gaza. Should Hamas follow a different metric? No winners here. Only people continuing to defend the indefensible.
What is the result of Israeli action towards Gaza? I know how I would feel and what I would do if I lived in Gaza. Heck, I'm snug as a bug in Norway and I feel that way now.

By norske, at Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:10:00 AM
To Norske (15 Jan. 2009 9:10:00),

Your last paragraph sounds like you are feeling absolute rage and, if in Gaza, would go fight the Israelis. Is that really what you are trying to say? If so, think about whether you really mean it or if you are just venting rage.

Would you really go out and most likely get killed trying to take a shot at an Israeli soldier? Easy to contemplate when you're "snug as a bug in Norway". Much different when it's real.

Placing yourself in the position of a Palestinian in Gaza actually does make some sense. From the point of view of the Israelis, it makes sense to put yourself in the place of your enemy so that you can direct your own actions accordingly.

So what will most Palestinians in Gaza do if Hamas is totally defeated and rooted out, and what will they do if Hamas is allowed to survive in Gaza?

In the first situation of a total victory over Hamas, the Palestinians will most likely submit to the Palestinian Authority which also governs the West Bank. Any attempts to reestablish Hamas and start firing rockets at Israel will be suppressed in Gaza by the Palestinian Authority, most likely with the full support of the population in Gaza which will never want to call down the wrath of Israel again. This support will strengthen over time as the standard of living improves in a Gaza at peace with its neighbors.

In the second scenario, it will be just a matter of time until Hamas restarts its Jihad and launches attacks again. Of course, Israel would then have no real choice other than to again take military action. They might not be so restrained as they have been so far (Do you have any idea of the destruction Israel could unleash if it wanted to?)

Peace will only have a real chance if Hamas and its hideous ideology are completely defeated. Any cease fire which enables Hamas to retain control in Gaza will be worthless.

By Chris in Paso, at Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:09:00 PM
Dave,

I would appreciate it if you would let this request through on this thread. I have placed a petition on my blog HIWAR to get a ceasefire in place. It is an international campaign sponsored by Avaaz. People are really getting desperate.

This is the last post I will include on Gaza on this blog.

If people are interested or feel compelled to end the bloodshed, please sign it or do anything to help stop it.
If you want to promote more violence, please remain where you are.

Also, if people want up-to-date and live information, they can go to the English Aljazeera website and download their livestation TV. People may be aware that the Aljazeera reporter is the only outside reporter inside Gaza. Israel did not allow the international press in. It is free and 24 hours a day. They do minute by minute coverage of different important issues, including Gaza. Most recently, Israel targeted more UN facilities housing civilians and bombed hospitals and food supplies for refugees worth millions of dollars; all up in flames.

Thank you,

Marilyn.

By Marilyn, at Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:42:00 PM
Back in the day Hamas was receiving direct and indirect aid from TelAviv, they were used to divide the popular secular PLO, with a religious based group for political representation. Israel helped birth Hamas, and now is collectively punishing the Palestinian people for supporting Hamas. what an obscenity! who profits? Israel ironically like Germany before has gone insanely rabid with blood lust and must be brought to heel by the international community.
"no holy book,no chosen people"

By geo, at Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:46:00 PM
I have no difficulty fighting against injustice wherever and whenever I come across it be it Nam, Gaza, or back in the US. BTW, rage is not quite the word I would use.

By norske, at Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:28:00 PM
Since you ask:

When I pray I have NO expectations.

I pray for everyone, regardless of whether they are my friends or enemies. The ultimate results of my efforts, if any, are beyond my control. I can live with that.

I believe there is only one God, the same for everyone.

By Wise Guy, at Friday, January 16, 2009 12:12:00 AM
There will be peace in the Middle East and a cease-fire in Gaza when the flipping Muslims stop trying to force their insane religious beliefs on the world.

All Hamas has to do is to stop firing rockets into Israel. You don't need a petition for that...just some common sense.

Israel knows they can't count on Obama. (One the prayers offered at his crowning party will be given by a Muslim women with direct ties to Hamas)

So Israel has no choice but to completely destroy Hamas and any other entity that threatens her. Israel has the right and world support to defend herself. It will not end with a piece of paper this time. It will end when the terrorist Islamo-fascists stop the barbaric killing of free people and Jews.

This will be a long war in the Middle East. Hunker down and get comfy. Israel will not give in this time.

It is time for the world to unite and end all Islamo-terrorism in the world. Thank you President Bush for keeping us safe from these nut cases.

Islam must convert or die. End of story.

By A victory for Israel mens peace, at Friday, January 16, 2009 7:48:00 AM
This idea, stated above, that "Islam must convert or die" is one of the most despicable, hateful and violence provoking comments ever posted on this website. It is that sick attitude that perpetuates violence and misunderstanding.

"Convert" to what? Christianity? Jesus Christ would NEVER condone such a statement or attitude. Such a statement is anti-Christian.

The level of ignorance about Islamic religion posted by some people on this website is weak and dangerous.

There are messed up people in all parts of the world who with their messed up interpretations of religion, use religious rhetoric to justify sin. It happens under the banner of Islam and Christianity. And it happens right here on this blog.

Love is at the core of each of the great religions. Love is the foundation. The only true religion is love. Love is the unifying factor toward which all religious paths ultimately lead.

By Wise Guy, at Friday, January 16, 2009 9:16:00 AM
I would just like it if the right wing religious fanatics in this country would stop trying to convert everybody. Convert to atheism or die.
Obviously the last line was a bit much, like your entire post.

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 16, 2009 10:04:00 AM
An example advocating violence against the infidel would be the statement of Musab al-Zarqawi, the number one person directing al-Qaida in Iraq before he was killed by an American bomb, who stated, "Killing the infidels is our religion, slaughtering them is our religion, until they convert to Islam or pay us tribute."

The infidels alluded to are Christians, called Crusaders, Jews, Hindus and other Muslims with whom they disagree. In the case of Christians and Jews – the people of the book – under the Koran and the compilation of the Traditions of the Prophet, writings handed down concerning the actions and sayings of the Prophet, they have the option of converting or paying tribute. Pagans have no option. They must convert or die.

Well WiseGuy and myself finally agree! This kind of insanity in the Islam religeon is absurd. The world will be better off without Islam.

Great post! thanks!

By A victory for Israel mens peace, at Friday, January 16, 2009 10:15:00 AM
I am convinced the world is a better place and will become an even better place because of Islam and Christianity. They each have something vital and moral to teach the world. Eventually, without a doubt, they will unite under a single banner, the banner of love.

The hatred that we see directed at the various religious affiliations is a perversion, a disease that will one day be healed. It is happening in small degrees as we speak. Some can see it, others are oblivious to it. But it remains a fact.

The various religions are different paths, different journeys, with unique pitfalls, leading to a single truth, a unity of man.

No one will eradicate Christianity or Islam or the other great religions. Practitioners of each will grow and evolve within their religion, each coming closer to the truth, closer to understanding love, until the basic unity of mankind is recognized and appreciated.

By Wise Guy, at Friday, January 16, 2009 9:22:00 PM
Convert or die; sounds like a real fundamentalist approach, possibly by some real radicals that will kill or torture anyone not believing the exact same way as those who want everyone to convert to their way of thinking, correct? Let's look at what Christianity was saying, say seven, eight or nine hundred years ago; what do we find? The Spanish Inquisition, The Crusades; does the language sound similar to extremist Muslims of today? Let's remember that Islam, as a religion, is about eight hundred years younger than Christianity. As many people has the Christians of that time killed, did they make a difference in the shape of religion? Not really; so how are radical, extremist Muslims going to effect a domination over everyone else in the world today? IT WILL NOT HAPPEN! Even if they managed to get suitcase nukes into every major city in the world and threatened to blow them all up at the same time unless everyone in the world converted Islam, it would not change peoples beliefs. Instead of trying to "kill all of them so they don't kill any of us", how about showing them where they are going wrong. Instead of trying to kill all of them, perhaps we should be showing them how compassionate all of the other religions are, as well as those who practice no religion, by feeding the starving, clothing the naked, educating the masses and leading by example. There are wackos in every religion; that doesn't mean that they are trying to kill everyone who doesn't think like they do; if we can show the small minority of radical Muslims that we can be better than we have shown that we are, then they can be better than they have been.
I'm sure the righties will accuse me of wanting to sing Kumbaya, but big deal; that would be much more "Christ" like than wanting to kill Muslims, even radical fundamentalist Muslims.

By Downtown Bob, at Saturday, January 17, 2009 1:07:00 AM
Bob, Much like many kids in school you were taught a tainted history. So be it. But you are dead wrong about the crusades. The crusades were a series of battles to take back and regain land and territories that we taken over (by war) by Islam. Read up on that and we can talk again.

Second. I like your approach to showing the “other side” where the ideology is wrong and work to show the correct path of peace and love.

Here is my challenge for you. You start here with a string of posts and attempt to show Marilyn that her support of radical Islam and terrorism is wrong, and that hating America as she stands is wrong as well. Try to move her to the center where she begins to love and accept the nation and people of Israel, and truly appreciates America no matter what party is in charge. Show her how Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran and the entire nation of Islam cannot stay committed to the destruction of Israel. Now that would be something to see. Think of how much you could show us all about how to do it.

Will you accept my challenge? Seriously Bob…Show us.

By hopefull, at Saturday, January 17, 2009 9:01:00 AM
Hopeful: To agree with your challenge, I would have to agree with you and all of the righties that comment here that Marilyn is a supporter of terrorism; she is not, period. When Israel pulls out of Gaza in accordance with a cease fire agreement, and relief supplies can flow into Gaza, when food and water are readily available, when employment keeps the idle occupied with constructive work that earns a paycheck that can support those living in Gaza, perhaps the militant members of Hamas will not have much sway over the population of Gaza. Acts of terrorism are only allowed to continue in places like Gaza because most who live there don't see any alternatives; take away the root cause of the suffering (inequity in most areas) and you remove the support for acts of terrorism, and once the support for allowing acts of terror to continue is gone, terrorism will no longer be tolerated by the people that live among those who wish carry out terrorism. Besides that, the role of "being an example" falls to the group who has the strongest position, unless you have a Ghandi type person among the ranks of the oppressed, of course. In my opinion, who needs to lead by example here is Israel; are you aware of how many Israelis are opposed to the military action their government is carrying out in Gaza?

By Downtown Bob, at Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:47:00 PM
Bob, once again you seemed to have been ripped off in school. If you look at the real aftermath of Gandhi’s radical actions you will see that he set India back decades, and during his "passive" approach millions were killed in India. Gandhi was a radical that forced his ideas on a country that did not have the consensus of the people thus the masses suffered under the radical hand of Gandhi.

Read up on it Bob and you will see that yet again you are wrong.

As for your chickening out on trying to convince Marilyn that terrorism is barbaric...I expected you to do just that.

For those that doubt, know this. Israel will not stop until Hamas is gone for good. Once they are the new legitimate leaders in Gaza will belly up to the peace talks on behalf of their people. The Islamo-fascists of Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran and even Syria will never accept the nation of Israel and thus terrorism will stop for nothing but death.

We at least have this to look forward to...Gaza free from animalistic terrorist Muslims willing to let their people die rather than to stop firing rockets at Israeli women and children.

Who should stop first? The ones that caused the problem in the first place and those with little to fight with. In this case both are Hamas.

America defeated al-Qaeda and the Taliban, and Israel will take out Hamas and Hezbollah and then it's onto Iran for both of us.
One by one these Islamo-fascists groups will go down and world peace will rise.

Nice try Bob. But you are backing the wrong horse...again.

By still hopefull, at Saturday, January 17, 2009 6:46:00 PM
UPDATED TIMELINE PressTY.Ir
January 4: United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon calls for an immediate cessation of the Israeli ground invasion of the Gaza Strip.

Israeli warplanes bomb the coastal region, lighting up the sky hours before sunrise.
The United States blocks a UN Security Council bid to require an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza Strip.
Israeli bombers hit the Hamas-run al-Aqsa radio station inside Gaza.
A Palestinian ambush allegedly kills five Israeli troops.
Hamas says its fighters have captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes with invading Israeli troops in the Gaza Strip.
Israeli forces surround the largest city in the Palestinian territories, Gaza City.
Clashes continue between Israeli troops and Hamas fighters in four spots in the north, around Gaza City, Beit Hanoun, Beit Lahiya and Jabaliya.
Gaza resistance fighters fire ten more rockets into Israeli cities, two targeted at western Negev and three hit Sderot city.

Israeli bombers target heavily populated areas inside the Gaza Strip, killing five Palestinian civilians and wounding 40 others.

Medics inside Gaza confirm that they have found traces of depleted uranium in some Palestinians wounded in the Israeli ground offensive.
Israel kills two senior Hamas officials, Hussam Hamdan and Muhammad Hilo, in an air strike on Khan Yunis.
Palestinian fighters fire at least 40 Qassam and Grad rockets into southern Israel.
Israeli President Shimon Peres rejects the possibility of a ceasefire.
Palestinians target an Israeli helicopter and allegedly destroy seven Israeli tanks inside the strip.
January 5: An Israeli tank shell kills five members of a family in an eastern neighborhood of Gaza City.
Israeli troops and tanks divide Gaza City and northern areas of the strip from the rest of the coastal territory.
Hamas says it will attend an Egyptian mediated ceasefire meeting in Cairo.
Israeli air forces targets 30 positions in Gaza overnight, according to an army spokesperson.
Grad rockets target the Hatzor Air Base, near the Israeli town of Ashdod, the al-Aqsa TV channel reports. Israeli media outlets say Palestinian fighters fired at least four Qassam rockets into the western Negev on Monday morning.
Israeli ground forces enter Gaza City.
An Israeli attack on a house in the town of Beit Lahiyah in the north of the Gaza Strip kills three and injures at least 44 others.
Israeli forces shoot a mother and her four children in the Chujaiya neighborhood in Gaza City. All are killed.
Fighting between Hamas fighters and Israeli forces kills an Israeli soldier near Gaza City. Large explosions and heavy exchanges of fire rocks eastern neighborhoods of the city.
An Israeli army spokesperson says that the Israeli army has detained dozens of Hamas fighters in the Gaza Strip.
January 6: Hamas claims it has hit seven Israeli tanks and killed ten Israeli soldiers.
The Israeli army says "friendly" tank fire kills three soldiers.
Major battles between the Palestinian resistance and Israeli troops begin inside Gaza City.
Amnesty International calls on the United Nations Security Council to condemn Israel over its operations in the Gaza Strip.

Israeli tanks enter the city of Khan Yunis, the largest city in southern Gaza.
Palestinian Grad rockets hit the three Israeli towns of Netivot, Ofakim and Eshkol.
Israeli tanks kill at least six Palestinian fighters in the central Gaza Strip town of Deir al-Balah.
Hamas says Israeli air strikes target 29 houses in the Gaza Strip.
Palestinian fighters say they have killed 4 other Israeli troops.
The Israeli army confirms the death of an Israeli paratroop officer during clashes in northern Gaza.
Israeli air strikes kill five people inside two UN-run schools in the Gaza Strip.
Israel arrests a correspondent of the al-Alam News Network for defying a ban imposed on covering the Israeli operations in the Gaza Strip.
Israel says it has killed Ayman Siam, a Hamas artillery unit commander, in an aerial attack on Jabaliya, northern Gaza.
Hamas reveals a video showing "the remains of an Israeli drone shot down by Palestinian fighters" in the Gaza Strip.
At least 12 members of a family die in Israel's artillery barrage against the eastern Gazan neighborhood of al-Zeitoun.
At least 43 people are killed in another Israeli attack on a school run by the UN agency for Palestinian refugees in the Gaza Strip. The death toll for the attacks on the three UN schools amount to at least 48.
The Hamas military wing says one of its fighters has destroyed an Israeli army tank. The Palestinian is killed in the clash.
The Israeli military confirms that resistance fighters have killed an Israeli soldier and wounded 4 others in clashes north of Gaza City.
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez expels the Israeli ambassador to Caracas.
The EU embarks on a peace mission to Egypt and Israel to broker a truce in the war-torn Gaza Strip.
January 7: Israel kills one Palestinian and wounds three others as fierce clashes continue in the Gaza Strip.
UN Security Council members and Arab states also call on both Israel and Hamas to declare a ceasefire.
Denmark summons the Israeli ambassador to Copenhagen in protest at an attack on clinics run by a Danish charity in Gaza.
Clashes between resistance fighters and Israeli forces continue.
Four Qassam rockets hit near the Israeli port of Ashdod and an open area in the western Negev's Eshkol Regional Council region. An additional rocket is fired into the city of al-Majdal.
Israeli tanks withdraw from the southern the Gazan city of Khan Yunis.
The Israeli military halts attacks in parts of Gaza for a daily three-hour period. The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) denounces the lull as not enough for humanitarian aid to be distributed among Palestinian refugees.
Hamas says it will stop firing rockets into Israel during the period Tel Aviv suspends its attacks to allow humanitarian aid to enter Gaza.
Two Palestinians are killed in the eastern Gaza City neighborhood of Zeitoun, after Israel's "humanitarian respite" ends.
The military wing of Hamas says the resistance fighters have destroyed an Israeli Merkava 4 tank in Gaza City fighting.
Israel's security cabinet approves expanding a ground offensive against the Gaza Strip to push deeper into populated areas.
A Palestinian Red Crescent worker dies and two others are wounded in an Israeli bombardment of the Gaza Strip. Israeli warplanes commence the shelling of the populated border region of Rafah.
Israel kills five members of a family in an air raid in the northern Gazan town of Jabaliya.
Palestinians fire at least 25 rockets into southern Israel. Nine people are treated for shock, but no other casualties are reported.
Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah warns that "all possibilities" are open against Israel.
January 8: The UN Security Council seeks a non-binding resolution against Israel. Resolution 1860 would call for an immediate and durable ceasefire in Gaza leading to a "full withdrawal" of Israeli troops.
UNRWA suspends operations in Gaza after a UN-flagged convoy is hit by Israeli tanks. One person is killed in the attack.
Several rockets fly from Lebanon into northern Israel, wounding two people. Hamas denies any involvement.
Tel Aviv fires five rockets into Lebanon in retaliation.
The armed wing of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad says it has attacked an Israeli naval ship with mortars on the northern coast of the Gaza Strip.
Palestinian fighters fire half a dozen homemade rockets into southern Israel.
The Red Cross finds four emaciated children in the Zeitoun district of Gaza City lying beside their dead mothers in a house containing 12 bodies. Israeli soldiers order the rescue team to leave the area.
Hamas anti-tank missiles kill an Israeli army officer and wounds one more in the former Neztarim settlement in the Gaza Strip.
New Israeli raids on the impoverished enclave kills 20 people, many of whom were women and children.
Several mortar shells are fired at the Eshkol region in the western Negev, wounding four Israeli soldiers. Five more people are treated for shock.
Israeli air strikes target civilian areas in the center of Gaza City.
Hamas says it has targeted a group of Israeli soldiers east of the Tofah district of Gaza City. Another Israeli soldier was targeted by Palestinian snipers in the city of Jabaliya north of Gaza City.
The Israeli military says Palestinian fighters have killed three Israeli soldiers and wounded several more in clashes and rocket attacks on Israel.
January 9: Early hour clashes between resistance fighters and Israeli forces leave two women, a Moroccan and a Russian killed. The Moroccan woman is killed with two members of her family in Gaza City.
15 mosques are reduced to rubbles in nighttime bombardment of Gaza.
The UN Security Council adopts Resolution 1860 and calls for an immediate and durable ceasefire in the Gaza Strip. The United States abstained from voting on the ceasefire resolution.
Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni responds that Tel Aviv will not abide by the resolution.
Hamas says its Grad rockets have hit the Tel Nof Israeli airbase near Tel Aviv. The base is believed to be home to nuclear arms.
The UN says Israeli forces have moved around 110 Palestinians into a house and shell it repeatedly 24 hours later, killing about 30 people.
UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness says Israel attempted to justify its attack on a UN school by releasing footage of Palestinians firing from the school. He dismisses the tape as irrelevant as it dates back to 2007.
Gunness adds that when confronted, Tel Aviv admitted that its shelling of the UN school, which killed dozens of Gazan civilians, was "unprovoked".
The International Committee of the Red Cross limits its operations in the Gaza Strip after Israeli forces open fire on one its vehicles.
Israeli helicopters pound Gaza.
Israel violates its self-declared three-hour lull by attacking the cities of Jabaliya and Beit Lahiya in the north and the Zeitoun neighborhood of Gaza City.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert says Tel Aviv will not take Resolution 1860 into consideration.
Hamas fighters fire rockets into Israeli cities of Kerem Shalom and Ashdod. No casualties are reported.
Israel bombs a house in Beit Lahiya in northern Gaza.
Israel's security cabinet decides to continue the offensive in Gaza.
January 10: Israeli forces attempt to enter Gaza City through Sofa and Kissufim. Palestinian fighters clash with the invading troops.
The Israeli military says it had carried out more than 70 airstrikes in the Gaza Strip on the previous day.
Egypt hosts separate talks with Palestinian Authority Chief Mahmoud Abbas and a Hamas delegation in Cairo.
Resistance fighters, including Hamas fire at least seven rockets into Israel, lightly wounding two people.
Israel kills eight members of the same Palestinian family, including a 12-year-old child, in the northern town of Jabaliya.
The United Nations Relief and Work Agency (UNRWA) resumes relief operations inside the besieged sliver of land.
Hamas says it killed at least 12 Israeli military forces in fresh clashes with the Israeli army.
Palestinian fighters fire eight rockets into Israel, slightly injuring two people. Ten others are treated for shock.
The Israeli air force drops flyers on the Gaza Strip, warning the residents of a "new phase of attacks" on the beleaguered territory.
The Israeli air force pounds the populated border region of Rafah in Gaza.
Israel once again violates the three-hour truce by shelling the coastal strip.
Hamas says it has targeted an Israeli military base located some 50 kilometers from the Gaza Strip.
A rocket launched by Palestinian fighters form the Gaza Strip injures at least 14 people in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon.
The Israeli military says it has killed senior Hamas fighter Amir Mansi in Gaza City.
Israeli white phosphorous shells kill three and injure 60 others in the southern city of Khan Yunis.
more to come

By geo, at Saturday, January 17, 2009 7:05:00 PM
"are you aware of how many Israelis are opposed to the military action their government is carrying out in Gaza?"

We will know that number exactly next month in the elections in Israel.

What will you say then Bob? The election was rigged?

By same-ol-partisan BS, at Saturday, January 17, 2009 8:23:00 PM
Still Hopeful: Bull shit. You want me to convince Marilyn that terrorism is barbaric; has she ever said that it wasn't? I don't know Marilyn, I don't speak for Marilyn; I know that acts of terrorism are barbaric, as well as I know that sometimes those who commit acts of terror believe that they have no other options because their situation is so desperate. That does not mean that terrorism is justified in any way, shape or form; our government used white phosphorus in Fallujah, that was a war crime, an act of terrorism; same thing when Israel uses white phosphorus. The reasons for committing such vile acts do not excuse the vile act, period, whether done by governments, or non-state players.
You want to discount the effectiveness of the actions of Ghandi, and I'm sure that you probably thought Martin Luther King was wrong in his approach as well, but, they led by example, just as Jesus did. I am not claiming that either man was a saint or perfect, but they did carry out their vision, their hope without using force or violence. You may think you are clever in attempting to sway me with a logic trap, but your partisan approach of always siding with the position of power is a dead give away. Israel may be completely innocent of any charges of war crimes and attacking civilians, but until that is proven by independent sources, I'm not buying it.

By Downtown Bob, at Sunday, January 18, 2009 12:11:00 AM
Truth is...the Israeli army is very restrained in their defense of the nation against Terror attacks out of Gaza.

1) Every day the Israeli army has a "siesta". From 1PM to 4PM daily they stop all bombings and ground attacks so that humanitarian aid, food water and medical supplies can get to the oppressed people of Gaza.

2) Hams does this: They tell a family that they will hide rockets in their basement and if they say no, or tell anyone their entire family will be killed. Proven facts. When the Israeli forces discover theses homes four things happen before destroying the rockets and thus the house.
A) They call the home owner/family in question and give them 24 hours to remove their possessions and leave safely.
B) They also call the neighbors surrounding the Hamas rocket dumps to warn them.
C) They drop leaflets warning of the impending bombing.
D) They offer asylum to the families if they so wish it.

Then and only then do they bomb.
The families are terrified of Hamas, and they are not allowed to leave as Hamas wishes its civilian fatalities remain high in order to send that propaganda out to the world. These are proven facts.

PS: During the 1-4 PM humanitarian ceasefire EVERY day Hamas continues to fire rockets at Israel.

Now really folks...Does that sound like a smart thing to do? Think it through. Get medicine and food and water to your people. Reinforce strong holds to protect your people, or fire more rockets.

Hamas is wrong and desperate. Israel despite any radical liberal drama/trauma will not stop unless and until Hamas is destroyed or run out of Gaza. The people of Gaza want Hamas gone. Israel wants Hamas gone. The world now wants Hamas gone. Hamas will not agree as they are committed to only one thing: The total destruction of the nation and people of Israel.

This is a just war and it will be finished. That much the sane world learned from president Bush.

Peace through victory is the only way to rid the world of radical Islamo-fascist terrorists for good.

By Truth is..., at Sunday, January 18, 2009 8:44:00 AM
Kumbaya, now more than ever.

The consequence of war, all wars, is that the victorious tribe ends up taking on characteristics of the vanquished tribe. It happens EVERY time, EVERY war.

Please reread my previous posts on this thread for further Wise Guy insights regarding war, life, death and spirituality. I try to present an island of sanity and light in a world where darkness creeps.

If you appreciate my work, please tell the sponsors.

By Wise Guy (the humble), at Sunday, January 18, 2009 2:38:00 PM
Thesaurus:
WISE GUY

noun

One who is obnoxiously self-assertive and arrogant: malapert, witling. Informal know-it-all, saucebox, smart aleck, smarty, smarty-pants, wisenheimer.

OK, now it all makes sense. Thanks

By SESQUIPEDALIAN, at Sunday, January 18, 2009 4:25:00 PM
Well, Duh!

By Wise Guy, at Sunday, January 18, 2009 4:36:00 PM
Oh, by the way, a thesaurus is distinctly different from a dictionary. A thesaurus does not offer definitions of words. A thesaurus offers up words that have similar, but most often DIFFERENT meanings.

Many humorous mistakes in writing are made by people who use a thesaurus thinking, wrongly, that it has much the same function as a dictionary. A dictionary defines words. A thesaurus offers alternative words with alternative meanings.

If you are going to use a thesaurus, you should also use a dictionary in conjunction with it.

When people mindlessly pull words from a thesaurus without using a dictionary to discover their different nuances of meaning, they usually end up demonstating that the do not know what they are talking about or writing about. They often appear terribly foolish without realizing it. That's a fact.

(Now try looking up "undefeated" in a thesaurus or dictionary.)

By Wise Guy (the humble), at Sunday, January 18, 2009 4:50:00 PM
Truth Is and all of your other incarnations. You must really enjoy writing inane gibberish ad nausea for no apparent reason. Try coming up with an original thought or better yet just go away.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 18, 2009 7:02:00 PM
OK, we've had our fun for the day with word games. Enough, please.

Let's get back to the issue of Gaza.

By Dave Congalton, at Sunday, January 18, 2009 9:01:00 PM
A-OK, Dave. And may I suggest that in the future you not allow the posting of comments that are nothing more than personal attacks and childish name calling.

By Wise Guy, at Sunday, January 18, 2009 9:48:00 PM
This item is not strictly about Gaza but related, but I have to put it here. That is the only thing that I found myself laughing out loud about in the middle of this carnage.

Do you remember "Joe the Plumber?" The poster boy of the McCain/Palin campaign?
Well, apparently Samuel J. Wurzelbacher, the "Joe Schmoe Without a License Plumber" celebrity hit a cord with the ultra-ultra-ultra conservatives here. He was hired by Pajamas TV Blog to cover the Gaza War on the Israeli side. I am NOT kidding.

Mr. Plumber was a moron during the campaign and he is still a moron as a reporter. He believes reporters should be barred from covering wars. He said the following about reporters who cover wars: "To be honest with you, I don’t think journalists should be anywhere allowed war [sic]. … I liked back in World War I and World War II, when you’d go to the theater and you’d see your troops on the screen and everyone would be real excited and happy for them. Now everyone’s got an opinion and wants to down soldiers — our American soldiers, our Israeli soldiers. I think media should be abolished from reporting. You know, war’s hell, and if you’re gonna sit there and say ‘Well look at this atrocity’ — well you don’t know the full story behind it half the time. So I think the media should have no business in it."

Maybe Joe Blow should not have signed up for the job if the Gaza slaughter was too much for his sense of fairness and his compassion for the plight of American and Israeli soldiers.
Really, I can understand the "our American soldiers" bit, even if it was irrelevant in that context, but what is it with "our Israeli soldiers?"

There are many morons like Mr. Plumber who are schizophrenic in their allegiances. They can't make up their mind if they are American or Israeli. They are American when attacking liberals and democrats, and Israeli when Israel is killing Arabs. The best of both world, if you ask me. Let no one ever doubt where Mr. Plumber's allegiance and allegiance of his ilk are, and it is not with the United States. It is with the Armageddonist ideology I mentioned earlier.

Maybe Joe should do all real journalists a favor and move to Israel and quit his reporting job and sign up for the IDF instead. He would fit in with the rest of the Armageddon Moronists (a new religion I made up).

It shows how low the ultra-right intolerant can stoop to promote their freaky ideas.

By Marilyn, at Sunday, January 18, 2009 10:25:00 PM
Israel wins. Hamas is total shambles.

Now onto Iran, and this wil be fun because Obama doesn't have the nuts to not support freedom and democracy.

Let's see hwo he handles this.

By Congrats Israel!, at Thursday, January 22, 2009 1:50:00 PM
I see all the hamas bleeding heart libs have grown quiet since Israel taught hamas a lesson by kicking it's muslim hatefull butts to the curb.

And this is how it should be.

By Go Israel!, at Sunday, January 25, 2009 4:49:00 PM
Hamas is still at it. 8 more Israelis injured from Hamas rocket attacks. See, Marilyn, Hamas does not want peace nor will they ever learn to live in peace. I hope the IDF goes back into Gaza and finally finishes Hamas once and for all. Only then can Israel and the Palestinians honestly talk about peace.

By Big Tent Republican, at Monday, February 02, 2009 8:56:00 AM
Big Tent, you may have strong opinions, but you're not exactly known for your diplomacy skills, so the idea that you're trying to advise the world about achieving peace in the Middle East seems rather absurd. Ditto for your military strategy "skills."

By Wise Guy, at Saturday, February 07, 2009 8:21:00 AM
Whatever, Wise Guy, whatever. Your opinion is no more or less valuable than mine and you are no more or less educated than me. And your diplomacy skils suck too.

By big tent Republican, at Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:46:00 AM

Dave Congalton on News Talk 920 KVEC

Sunday, January 04, 2009

Gaza

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